Falsifications of the Worldwide flood

Intresting.. Source?

Only after they aquired horses from the Spanish. Prior to that they lived along the shores of lake Superior. But if you don't think the plains suffered great floods then you know nothing of what the Missouri river could be like during the spring thaw before all those flood control dams, such as Fort Randall and Gavin's Point were built. You may also remember some huge floods that occured around the St. Louis in 1993.
Here is a Lakota flood myth.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/flood-myths.html#Lakota
Lakota: Unktehi, a water monster, fought the people and caused a great flood. The people retreated to a hill, but the water swept over them, killing them all. The blood gelled and turned to pipestone. (Pipes made from that rock are sacred today.) Unktehi was also turned to stone; her bones are in the Badlands now, forming a long ridge. A giant eagle, Wanblee Galeshka, swept down, saved one girl from the flood, carrying her to a tree on the highest pinnacle, the only place not covered by water. He made her his wife. She bore twins, a boy and a girl, which are the ancestors of the Sioux. [Erdoes & Ortiz, pp. 93-95]

Unktehi puffed up her body to make the Missouri overflow, and the little water monsters, her children, did the same with other streams and lakes. This caused a great flood which covered the country. Only a few people escaped to the highest mountain, and the waves threatened to kill them. The thunderbirds liked people, so they fought the water monsters for several years. In time, it became clear that the thunderbirds were losing when they fought close, so they retreated to the sky and, all together, sent their lightning bolts. This burned the forests, boiled the water, and turned the earth red hot, except where the people had taken refuge. Unktehi and the water monsters were defeated. Their bones can still be seen in the Badlands. [Erdoes & Ortiz, pp. 220-222][/quote]

And the horse nomads of asia were constantly travelling.

OK, here is a flood myth from that area.

Mongolia:Hailibu, a kind and generous hunter, saved a white snake from a crane which attacked it. Next day, he met the same snake with a retinue of other snakes. The snake told him that she was the Dragon King's daughter, and the Dragon King wished to reward him. She advised Hailibu to ask for the precious stone that the Dragon King keeps in his mouth. With that stone, she told him, he could understand the language of animals, but he would turn to stone if he ever divulged its secret to anyone else. Hailibu went to the Dragon King, turned down his many other treasures, and was given the stone. Years later, Hailibu heard some birds saying that the next day the mountains would erupt and flood the land. He went back home to warn his neighbors, but they didn't believe him. To convince them, he told them how he had learned of the coming flood and told them the full story of the precious stone. When he finished his story, he turned to stone. The villagers, seeing this happen, fled. It rained all the next night, and the mountains erupted, belching forth a great flood of water. When the people returned, they found the stone which Hailibu had turned into and placed it at the top of the mountain. For generations, they have offered sacrifices to the stone in honor of Hailibu's sacrifice. [Elder & Wong, pp. 75-77]

Here is a flood myth from Kenya.

Kikuyu (Kenya):A beautiful but mysterious woman agreed to marry a man on the condition that he never ask about her family. He agreed, and they lived happily together until it was time for their oldest son's circumcision, and the man asked his wife why her family couldn't attend the ceremony. With that, the wife bounced into the air and made a hole seven miles deep when she landed. She called upon her ancestors, who came as spirits from Mt. Kenya. The spirits raised a thunder and hailstorm as they came. They brought food, goats, cattle, and beer with them and, while the people took shelter in caves, flooded the countryside with beer, turning it into a lake. When the spirits left, they took the couple and their children with them into Mt. Kenya. [Abrahams, pp. 336-338]

All these stories and most of the sound pretty different from the Summerian myth the Hebrews copied. That's very strange if they are all descended from the people who surived on that big boat just a few thousand years ago.

The existence of literally hundreds of different flood myths is in fact strong evidence that all the people of the world are NOT descended from a small family of people on a big boat that were the only survivors of a worldwide flood a few thousand years ago.

Once again it is seen that facts which YECs consider to support the flood myth actually refute it.

The frumious Bandersnatch

It's seeming to me that the evidence against a global flood is your specialty here, FB. Am I right?

Don't think I have a problem with it or anything--I think it's great that everyone here has their own specialty. It's a lot easier for us to refute the creationist arguments here with each of us specializing in one topic than it would be if each of us knew just a little bit about everything.

I was just wondering... and next time creationists bring up their global flood idea, it'll be helpful to know who specializes in the evidence against it.

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So apparently you are saying that God poofed the animals to Australia and New Zealand after the flood. Why not just poof them out of the way while He murdered all the humans by drowing and then poof them back afterward, especially since you apparently think He poofed trees into miraculous growth rates. At least you prove why creation science is an oxymoron.

I see it in my minds eye as God regrowing all the trees relatively fast. Remember the dove returned with an olive branch, So it seems that God preformed another miracle.

"Poof God did it" yet again. Why bother to murder everything if He was going to perform a long string of miracles to preserve things post flood? Why bother to preserve some things post flood and not others? Specifically why allow all dinosaurs and all the primative mammals that got buried in the Paleocence to die out in such as way as to create an apparent successsion of life over time?

Neither works. Are you saying that baby dinosaurs were heavier than alligators? Trilobites could also swim and were lighter than either dinos or alligators. Were dinosuar eggs, which got buried with dinosaurs, heavier than alligators?

Ecological zoning fails for many reasons. Dinosaurs fossils are in hundreds of locations around the world and the fossils of Eocene-Pleistocence mammals are very abundant. Many of the mammals were quite large and some dinos were quite small. Are you saying that they never lived in the same area and this is why they never got buried together? Consider plants. Flowering plants, many of which live in swamps don't appear in the fossil record until the cretaceous. Why weren't any buried down in the Carboniferous or Permian zones? Meanwhile conifers which grow in mountains are found lower in the fossil record and lichens which are also found in mountains are very primative. There is also the sorting of microfossils, fish and organisms which grow attached to bottom to consider. Why is there a clear succession of bottom dwelling species in the fossil record? All creationist attempt to use the flood to explain the fossil record fail miserably and can be falsified by long, long lists of counter examples.
The frumious Bandersnatch

http://www.fmnh.org/vanishing_treasures/Origins_2.htm

God transformed the geological evidence to show there was no flood to test our faith. You are all failing!

I will pray for you.


PS. and evolution is just a theory! Ha!

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You'll make a great YEC one day...with some hard work...you could be one of the best. :rolleyes:

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It's what I have the most fun with. If you have been around long enough you will have also seen some posts on thermodynamics, skin and a few general subjects around the history of science and/or the history of creationism and several other topics.

I should point out again that most of the threads I link to in the OP and subsequent posts on the first page or two are not ones that I started.

In one sense I have "sub-specialized" in the thermodynamics of creation flood models, calculating overwhelming heat problems with CPT, hydroplate and vapor canopy models. Perhaps this is because I did quite a bit of calorimetry long ago in my callow youth and found these calculations pretty easy. I also really like biogeography and trace fossils, both as falsifications of the flood and interesting topics in their own right.

the frumious Bandersnatch

Thanks, will look into it when I get home.

Be sure to click on the little arrows on the bottom of the page to go to the next page in the artical. There is a lot of good information there. When it comes to biodiversity, there are people who believe that the philippines makes Darwin's islands look like the little league in comparison.