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Ethics & Morality A forum for the discussion and debate of ethics & morality open to all members.

View Poll Results: What should be taught?
Abstinence only. 35 20.00%
Safe Sex only. 14 8.00%
Both Abstinence and Safe Sex. 120 68.57%
Other (Please specify) 5 2.86%
Don't know/care. 1 0.57%
Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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  #51  
Old 19th February 2004, 02:54 PM
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And since many of the people posting in this thread aren't even Christians, our opinions are more than likely going to be a little more liberal than the fundie Christian, hot church member.
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  #52  
Old 19th February 2004, 03:09 PM
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The only logical choice is both.

I agree that abstinance is the only 100% surefire way to avoid STDs and pregnancy. That should be hammered home. However, students should also be taught about different types of birth control.

Teenagers have been having sex for time on end. In today's culture more than in the past, with prolonged dependency on parents, where a college education is almost necessary for a successful career, etc., kids are sexually raring to go long before it is feasible for them to settle down and be married. It is definitely ideal to wish that everyone would remain abstinent until they are ready and able to have kids. But it's called "idealism" because it will never happen except in your heads. Kids will choose to have sex no matter how much you beat them over the head with abstinence.

If people REALLY care about lowering teen/unwed pregnancy, STD infection rates, and abortion, then they will support the teaching of safe sex on top of abstinence.
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  #53  
Old 19th February 2004, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by msjones21
Just because someone doesn't believe doesn't mean God doesn't exist, that is correct; however, if a student does not believe in God then we cannot rightfully impose Christian moral beliefs upon them in an environment that is legally obligated to remain unbiased in their practices and teaching. They aren't encouraging students to go out and "get busy". They are telling them that there are potentially severe emotional and physical consequences for having sex, but they are telling them "if you are going to take that risk at least eliminate the risk for the most part".
Okay, so what legislation do we need to bring Christianity back into the schools? I know, I'm being hopelessly idealistic but we must try.

So teenagers weren't having sex back in later days? Please! Everyone on both sides of my family as far back as my great great grandmother got married because they were pregnant. Don't tell me that teens weren't having pre-marital sex back when women still wore pearls while cleaning house and everything was just lily white and wholesome. My family came from wealth, education, and morally strong, Christian families and they were still having sex and babies out of wedlock. It has nothing to do with the times we live in. Teens were having sex then and they're having sex now and believe it or not I feel that people are losing their virginity later in life now.


The truth is simply this...teens have been having sex since the beginning time and they will continue to do so. How does removing the knowledge and accessibility of how to protect themselves going to eliminate that?

You missed my point. I was talking about the religious tolerance in the US. What happened to there being one God only.

I'm not so naive to think that the "good old days" that teens weren't doing it. That has never been my point. My argument is that if the gospel were preached as it should, then perhaps (I'm a Cavanist) more people would come to the saving knowledge of Christ and we could enforce stronger morals. However, my Biblical beliefs tell me that there will be evil no matter what. Again, perhaps I am being too much of an idealist.


On that token I suppose schools should stay out of issues such as being drug free, the dangers of smoking, and the devestating effects of drinking and driving. After all, the parents should be the ones responsible for educating their kids...right? Some kids come from homes where there is not enough time for the parents to explain these things to them. Some parents and their kids do not have the type of open relationship in which either or parties feel comfortable discussing things of a sexual nature. That's like saying "let's take PE out of the schools because kids should be exercising at home!"

The point is that there is such a small group of students who are abstinent for religious reasons and many are not being taught at home or in the church that sex before marriage=bad so what do you teach the rest of the teens? If a parent is not comfortable with how the school is presenting the message on sexual relations then they are more than welcome to prevent their child from attending the classes. It is not mandatory.

Once again, the social problem I am talking about only scratches the surface of schools. The real problem is that parents aren't doing there jobs. What can be done to make parents more accountable for their children. Once again, there is my idealism showing through.


Spiritual consequences don't apply to everyone though! Here again, just because you and I know God does not mean these students will. Why should they be told sex is a sin when to them it isn't? It isn't even a sin to many Christians so now what do we do? What has been accomplished in the mission to teach teens that sex is evil? Absolutely nothing.

The dangers of sexual immorality discussed in Proverbs are helpful even to non-believers since it deals with the worldly consequences and the spiritual consequences. Perhaps the better word is psychological, I think you said that earlier in the post.
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  #54  
Old 19th February 2004, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by DianeCourt
Kids will choose to have sex no matter how much you beat them over the head with abstinence.
Will they?

Does beating them over the head with it really help? Maybe they need a reason aside from: "you could get stuck with some nasty sickness".
They need to be taught so that they want to abstain from premarital sex. "Because I said so" will not work unless your kid is an angel to begin with.
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  #55  
Old 19th February 2004, 04:48 PM
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Then tell them what lust can do to a person. Have someone who has experienced the destructive power of lust talk to them about how it can twist a person and nearly destroy them spiritually.
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  #56  
Old 19th February 2004, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilfred of Ivanhoe
Then tell them what lust can do to a person. Have someone who has experienced the destructive power of lust talk to them about how it can twist a person and nearly destroy them spiritually.
Good post. I agree 100%!
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  #57  
Old 19th February 2004, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CyNix
Will they?
Yes, they will. Perhaps I should clarify that when I say "kids" I mean "some percentage of kids," not "all kids." The entirety of recorded human history is on my side with this one. No matter how much you tell kids not to have sex, SOME of them inevitably will.
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  #58  
Old 19th February 2004, 06:41 PM
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CyNix, you raise an interesting and valid point. I think one of the most effective teaching tools to show young people the dangers of having sex before they're ready is to bring in a fifteen year old mother and let her tell them about what her day consists of. I know that had I been physically shown what having a child at such a young age will do to your life then I would have probably waited a bit longer to have sex.

What makes me so sad is that on teen websites such as Bolt and Kiwibox there are thirteen and fourteen year old girls posting threads saying that they had sex and are scared that they're pregnant. They are so frightened and so upset that their parents will be disappointed in them. I think that's the biggest issue. Children should not be so afraid of disappointing their parents. Of course, that's an unrealistic expectation considering the fact that I am 23 years old, live on my own, and I'm still concerned about disappointing my parents. Alot of these young teens are having unprotected sex because they're scared of saying "Mom, I need to go to the doctor and get on birth control" or they're too embarassed to buy condoms at the store. That, in and of itself, should prove that they're way too immature mentally to be having sex.

I don't think that the analogy "if you're not ready to have a baby then you're not ready for sex" really applies to teens mainly because nobody is ever truly "ready" to have a baby plus there are many thirty-something year olds who never want children; however, I think it would benefit young people greatly to have a tangible example of what exactly happens to your life once you become a parent or someone who is infected with an STD/STI.

Originally Posted by DianeCourt
No matter how much you tell kids not to have sex, SOME of them inevitably will.
I agree. Even Christian teens and/or teens raised in very moral families are not exempt from this fact of life.
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  #59  
Old 19th February 2004, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by DianeCourt
Yes, they will. Perhaps I should clarify that when I say "kids" I mean "some percentage of kids," not "all kids." The entirety of recorded human history is on my side with this one. No matter how much you tell kids not to have sex, SOME of them inevitably will.
True, there is always the rebel, who will do things only because he/she has been told not to. But I think the concept of "safe sex" only encourages premarital sex. I find it silly that a kid is told not to have sex, but then is shown the magic rubber that will safegaurd him against the dangers. Why not have sex, if it is safe? This is why, in my opinion, kids should not be taught to have safe sex, but instead they should be taught to not want sex until they are married.

A friend showed me a ring she had on her finger. The ring was to remind her not only to save herself and even mind and heart, for her husband, whoever he might be. She is not only keeping her body clean, but her mind and her soul.
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  #60  
Old 19th February 2004, 07:35 PM
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I picked both because people will have sex no matter what they tell them. Some even seem to have trouble NOT having sex at the age they're taught at, so I'd say safe sex at least makes them think before acting with some safety at hand.

I'm abstinent (sp?) but not like I make a big deal about it, just not found the right person to supposedly start a long line of people to do that sort of thing to, I prefer to stick to it with someone who deserves it.
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