The Age of the Universe--and Days of Creation

Corey · #21 23rd April 2002, 08:17 AM

I don't believe this because I believe that God gave us enough information to come to our own conclusion. It's just that the communists are trying to keep it out of schools.

Corey's corollary:

S/He who equates her/his opponents with communists also automatically loses.

You lose, Jonathan.

Psalm6 · #22 23rd April 2002, 10:09 AM

The cubit problem was simply about math...it didn't matter. A cubit could vary from time to time, they may have used it differently then.

Sinai · #23 23rd April 2002, 12:23 PM

Thank you for stating your opinions regarding the various theories, Jonathan ("messenjah"). Although some may disagree with some of your rationales or may question how you arrived at certain conclusions, I personally appreciate your taking the time to respond--which is what I originally requested readers of this thread to do.

Joe, thank you for taking the time to share your evaluations of the various theories. It might be useful for some if you went into greater detail regarding the flaws you think are inherent in each position, and your supporting data...if you have time to do so.

How about the rest of you? Are there any theories you particularly agree with? Why? Are there some that you disagree with? Why? In either case, what are your reasons, rationales, and supporting evidence (if any)?

Similarly, if any of you care to respond to the comments posted by someone, please do so.

Thank you.

Joe Nobody · #24 23rd April 2002, 12:26 PM

"Joe, I'm asking an honest question...do you not see any flaws in any of your views?"""

Hi Psalm6. Not off the top of my head. I gave quick answers but I could go in depth. For number 5 I have read 2 of Schroeder's 3 books (the third is on my shelf). I think I've read 4 of 5 Hugh Ross books (which is what question 3 and 4 is about). I've read a good deal of science books and yec literature (gish, hoving, morris et al) so I can firmly say I think that all of 2 (a and b as well) contradict established facts. View one is close but it misses the literary genre of the creation account. Its a reworked creation myth IMO. Do you have any specific questions?

Joe Nobody

seebs · #25 23rd April 2002, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Psalm6
The cubit problem was simply about math...it didn't matter. A cubit could vary from time to time, they may have used it differently then.

It doesn't matter how long a cubit is; it could be an inch or a mile, but a circle 10 cubits across will be more than 30 in diameter.

And I don't buy this "it didn't matter" thing; if you can dismiss even *ONE VERSE* of the Bible as "approximate" or "not literally true", then you can't say that every last verse is literally true.... and then you have to start asking which parts of it seem likely to be literally true (I consider the New Testament gospels to be the most likely) and which parts are handed-down stories or dependant on context (a lot of the epistles, and much of the old testament).

After all, in any practical sense, it doesn't matter one bit *how* God created the universe. If He felt that the best way to do it was to build it from scratch, so to speak, then He's allowed.

messenjah · #26 23rd April 2002, 06:31 PM

Corey's corollary:

S/He who equates her/his opponents with communists also automatically loses.

You lose, Jonathan.

Do you know why evolution first started getting taught in schools. Remember Sputnik? First rocket to get launched into space. Launched by the Russians. Well after the launch of Sputnik, the Americans started getting scared that we were losing the science race. So what did they do. They decided to adopt the Russians science. Unfortunately, the textbooks where then being payed for by the Churches and they didn't have enough money to by the new textbooks that would be needed. Ever since then the schools have been getting their funding for textbooks from the government. The government, in a Republic, is not supposed to fund the schools and is not supposed to have any part of the schools curiculum. But unfortunately, we stopped being a Republic 40 years ago and instead became a Democracy. Therefore we are slowly becoming socialist.

God bless,
Jonathan

messenjah · #27 23rd April 2002, 06:51 PM

Hmm. Even 1 Kings 7:23?

And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.

Now, I'm gonan bet you that, if you make a round thing ten cubits across, you'll find that it's 31.415 cubits around, or very close to that. Not 30 exactly.

In other words, God expects us to think, and understand, and accept that the words written down are not always literal or precise.

Here's an interesting article that might solve this problem. Tell me what you think. http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=9

God bless,
Jonathan

brt28006 · #28 23rd April 2002, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by messenjah
[b]

Do you know why evolution first started getting taught in schools. Remember Sputnik? First rocket to get launched into space. Launched by the Russians. Well after the launch of Sputnik, the Americans started getting scared that we were losing the science race. So what did they do. They decided to adopt the Russians science.

Evolution had been taught in schools prior to the famous Scopes "Monkey" trial, and that was quite some time before Sputnik (1925, to be accurate.)

As for Soviet science, quite a bit of it was either borrowed or outright stolen (but can science really be "stolen") from Western sources... and then in some cases improved on by the Soviets, but still, it was not originally researched by them. Over time, yes, Soviet science advanced by leaps and bounds independant of Western learning... a great tribute to what can be done when deistic beliefs don't hold you back.

Unfortunately, the textbooks where then being payed for by the Churches and they didn't have enough money to buy (sic) the new textbooks that would be needed. Ever since then the schools have been getting their funding for textbooks from the government. The government, in a Republic, is not supposed to fund the schools and is not supposed to have any part of the schools curiculum. But unfortunately, we stopped being a Republic 40 years ago and instead became a Democracy. Therefore we are slowly becoming socialist.

God bless,
Jonathan

Since when is a republic not allowed to fund schools?
Also, since when has America become a democracy instead of a republic?
If anything, over the past fourty years, we've been edging closer to an autocratic security state.

Also, what the heck is the correlation between direct democracy and socialism?
Why is socialism bad? (I don't personally believe communism to be superior to capitalism) But if you could answer these questions I'd be appreciative.

StPaulofHurstbridge · #29 23rd April 2002, 07:56 PM

I go for the Yom being 24 hours and a period of time - this is what is accepted from the platform at our church,
and I have seen many fact and faith type of films and radio program documentaries head down this line - when it comes to science I am a real dummy - so I am quite happy to go on beleiving this - it does not go against what God said, I don't have to think about it too much( just beleive) when all said and done I do not really care much about putting one over the other - maybe there is a little truth in all of the theories - and maybe there all wrong - we see through a glass darkly - bu later on I'm sure we will know....

Sinai · #30 23rd April 2002, 08:45 PM

Before this thread totally digresses from its topic, perhaps it would be beneficial to quickly define a few terms that have more to do with government than with this topic of discussion:

Democracy is, quite simply, rule by the people--either directly (pure democracy or direct democracy) or through elected representatives (representative democracy, also known as a republic). It comes from the Greek words demos (the people) and kratein (to rule).

Republic, on the other hand, is the most popular form of democracy. In a republic, the people elect political leaders who are at least supposed to represent the people.

In a pure democracy or direct democracy, the people as a whole meet to decide the issues. The most common form is a town hall meeting. Each person has an equal vote--but it becomes very time consuming and very difficult to manage if the population gets very large or the issues become very complex or time consuming.