| Daily Devotionals Post here your daily devotions and quiet time thoughts. |  | | 
4th April 2002, 11:41 AM
|  | Member 26  | | Join Date: 26th March 2002 Location: St. Petersburg, Fl.
Posts: 68
Blessings: 91,400
Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Can anyone help me out??? last night I was trying to find the story of Satan when he was throne out of heaven.
couldn't find it
I looked in a bunch of books and concordances, but still no luck
where do we get this?anyone know?
ther is a passage in Isaiah, but its real vage, and not much of a story
post if you can help.
God Bless
__________________ Saved by His Grace,
Jimmy | 
4th April 2002, 11:45 AM
| | It means 'yellow dog'

| | Join Date: 16th January 2002
Posts: 17,498
Blessings: 95,600
Reps: 16,995 (power: 44) | | | It's in the New Testament, after the return of the 70 missionaries. Luke 10:17-18.
"The Seventy returned with joy, saying, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in Your name." He said to them, "I watched Satan fall from heaven like a lightning flash."
__________________ Carry only love. Hate is a burden that is tremendously heavy. If you want to live like Jesus, love your enemies and give up your life for them. | 
4th April 2002, 11:54 AM
|  | Member 26  | | Join Date: 26th March 2002 Location: St. Petersburg, Fl.
Posts: 68
Blessings: 91,400
Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | yeah but... yeah I saw that too,
but what about the whole story
you know how satan was throne out of heaven because he wanted to be like God.
and how he took all these fallen angels to earth with him.
he was the throne keeper.
where is that--the bulk of the story?
__________________ Saved by His Grace,
Jimmy | 
4th April 2002, 11:57 AM
|  | Wanderer
 | | Join Date: 6th February 2002 Location: Erewhon
Posts: 4,707
Blessings: 4,600
Reps: 193,626,028,018,630,112 (power: 193,626,028,018,645) | | | It doesn't exist. The church father's attribute Isaiah 14 as a picture of Satan's fall. A worthwhile observation is that the Jews have no such tradition.
You may be thinking of Milton's Paradise Lost.
Tinker | 
4th April 2002, 12:29 PM
| | It means 'yellow dog'

| | Join Date: 16th January 2002
Posts: 17,498
Blessings: 95,600
Reps: 16,995 (power: 44) | | | oh that one! It's actually more than one verse that tells the whole story:
How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.' Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit. Isaiah 14:12-15
And Revelation 12:9
So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
__________________ Carry only love. Hate is a burden that is tremendously heavy. If you want to live like Jesus, love your enemies and give up your life for them. | 
4th April 2002, 12:31 PM
| | It means 'yellow dog'

| | Join Date: 16th January 2002
Posts: 17,498
Blessings: 95,600
Reps: 16,995 (power: 44) | | | They are both in the future tense, something that is going to happen, sometime in the future.
__________________ Carry only love. Hate is a burden that is tremendously heavy. If you want to live like Jesus, love your enemies and give up your life for them. | 
4th April 2002, 12:57 PM
|  | Member 26  | | Join Date: 26th March 2002 Location: St. Petersburg, Fl.
Posts: 68
Blessings: 91,400
Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | if this is true i dont' understand why its taught
i'll try to undrstand it
where is the evidence?
did you mean their is no Jewish tradition for it?
__________________ Saved by His Grace,
Jimmy | 
4th April 2002, 01:02 PM
| | It means 'yellow dog'

| | Join Date: 16th January 2002
Posts: 17,498
Blessings: 95,600
Reps: 16,995 (power: 44) | | | The Jews don't believe that it happened in the past, but it is something either figurative or something that will happen someday. But as for now, demons are still given full access to heaven.
These verses would coaborate that concept.
The demons are still permitted access to heaven, at some level, which explains why satan was able to be with the sons of God in Job chapter 1.
__________________ Carry only love. Hate is a burden that is tremendously heavy. If you want to live like Jesus, love your enemies and give up your life for them. | 
4th April 2002, 01:13 PM
|  | Wanderer
 | | Join Date: 6th February 2002 Location: Erewhon
Posts: 4,707
Blessings: 4,600
Reps: 193,626,028,018,630,112 (power: 193,626,028,018,645) | | An orthodox Jewish man who corresponds with some of your fellow posters on another message board answered my questions regarding Lucifer.
According to him, the Jews' teaching on Isaiah 14 is that it refers to Nebechednezzar (or however it is spelled.) In Jewish Tradition, The Satan (as opposed to a satan -- The accuser vs. an accuser) has the proper name Samael.
You should also note that only KJV and its derivatives (e.g., Darby) render the translation as "Lucifer". Even in KJV, the word only appears once in the entire Bible. (The vulgate had a reference in 2 Peter to "Lucifer".)
This website, http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/...t/xt-ibel2.htm says this To find the story of the fall of Satan, we must go to sources other than the Bible. There was a great deal of literature produced roughly between 200 BC and 150 AD, including the Apocrypha and the Pseudepigrapha. Some of these are apocalyptic -- they prophesy cataclysmic events and the end of the world. In this literature one can see the development of the idea of an evil spirit, but even in the apocalyptic literature the Devil does not become entirely evil in his origin and essence. Many of the books from this period reflect the misery of the Jewish people under the oppression of Syria and Rome. Their writings deal with visions of the end of the world, the world being in the power of the Devil, and the Messiah conquering the Devil and bringing a new era of justice. The Book of Enoch is seen by many as one of the earliest and most important accounts of the mishaps of the Heavenly Court (of angels). It also describes the rebellion of the angel Satanail, and his being hurled from heaven (2 Enoch, ch. 29, long MSS only). Some scholars take this to mean that the amalgamation of Satan and Lucifer goes back to the first century. A redating of 2 Enoch, however, puts it later than the third century, perhaps even in the seventh. For this reason others suggest that Origen (Exhort. 18) was probably the inventor of the identification of Lucifer with Satan (Satan: The Early Christian Tradition, Jeffrey Burton Russell, Cornell University Press, Ithaca, 1991, p. 130 & fn). The Life of Adam and Eve (Vita), a Jewish scripture that scholars date between 200 BC and 200 AD, relates that Satan tells Adam and Eve that his fall from heaven is the result of his refusal to worship Adam, the image of God. A similar account is also found in the Koran (S 2:34). These legends reflect a theme close to the primordial "pride" that led to the so-called fall of Satan.
Since the Old Testament does not connect pride or the Fall with Satan, the Devil, or the Adversary, the only scriptural "support" for this notion is the misinterpretation of the fall of Lucifer (the king of Babylon), and certain passages in the New Testament. But the New Testament does not give any clear information on the fall of Satan through pride either. One place where Lucifer is connected with pride is in Milton's Paradise Lost. He "applied the name to the demon of sinful pride" ("Lucifer," A Dictionary of Angels, Gustav Davidson, The Free Press, New York, 1967).
The bit about Origen (note the bolding I added above) is probably what I was thinking about with respect to church father's.
It is taught because it is tradition. Nothing wrong with that necessarily. But we ought to be aware of it.
Tinker | 
4th April 2002, 02:26 PM
|  | Passionate Worshiper
 | | Join Date: 1st February 2002 Location: Woodstock, IL
Posts: 944
Blessings: 91,392
Reps: 12 (power: 0) | | | Ezekiel 28:12-19 is believed by many to be speaking metaphorically about Satan (Lucifer) and his fall, being cast out, and final destruction. |  | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |