Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
I see new creationists have come to the forum. Maybe some of them could venture answers how all these meteorite impacts fit in with the YEC timeline.
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
I know this has probably been discussed before, but I want to bring it up again.
Over the course of the history of the Earth, the Earth has been hit by various space objects. A relatively recent impact occurred almost 100 years ago in Siberia, when a 90-meter diameter asteriod exploded before impacting the ground with the force of 800 times that of the Hiroshima atomic bomb.
Yet, in the past there have been impacts many magnitudes in size. The biggest impacts (1,2) include:
Vredefort crater (300 km diameter, ~2 billion years ago)
Sudbury crater (250 km diameter, ~1.8 billion years ago)
Chicxulub crater (170 km diameter, ~65 million years ago)
Woodleigh crater (~120 km diameter, ~200-360 million years ago)
Popigai crater (100 km diameter, ~36 million years ago)
Manicouagan crater (100 km diameter, ~214 million years ago)
To put these impacts in perspective, the impact that killed the dinosaurs (Chicxulub crater) is thought to have been caused by an asteriod 10 km in diameter. The force of impact would have been the equivilant of 15 billion Hiroshima bombs. And that's not even the biggest of the lot, let alone the only impact.
So how does the YEC model of the Earth account for these impacts? How has life on Earth survived such events, if the Earth is a mere 6000 years old?
So if you are saying that the Chixclu crater caused the extincion of the dinosaurs and possibly 90 % of life on earth...if this supposedly killed that many what about the impact of other asteroids..the map shows a lot of "hits"
..this should be correlated by the fossil record shouldn't it?...there should be something in the fossil record that shows massive extinctions consistent with the impacts..so where are they?...some organisms that depended on sunlight managed to survive..how do you explain this? we have had a documented case in the Krakatoan explosion that mimiced this so called event..yet there were no worldwide extinction of life on earth..crop failures, and temperature changes..the Bible is often silent on meteorites..thus many creationists feel that this has no impact on the so called evidence...it may be mentioned from an apocalyptic verse but to be dogmatic is not a requirement...If I could find evidence that showed that this collision occured later or earlier than previously thought, a difference of maybe thousands of years then this may disprove the contention that meteors killed the dinosaurs..let see ...hmm..whoa heres one: http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1056908.htm
"An ancient meteorite collision that created a vast crater off the coast of Mexico may not have triggered the extinction of the dinosaurs, according to an international team of scientists.
They say the collision off the Yucatan peninsula happened 300,000 years
before the mass extinction, too early to have killed the dinosaurs by itself."
Based on the work of thousands of scientists, Seposki has listed 3500 families of sea animals with their time of appearance and disappearance in the fossil record of 250 million years.
Examination of this list shows that periodically--about every 26 million years--there's a decrease in the numbers of families of marine animals in the fossil record. The decrease in diversity represents a mass extinction.
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Hey Lois, look, the two symbols of the republican party, an elephant, and a big fat white guy who's threatend by change.
So if you are saying that the Chixclu crater caused the extincion of the dinosaurs and possibly 90 % of life on earth...if this supposedly killed that many what about the impact of other asteroids..the map shows a lot of "hits"
..this should be correlated by the fossil record shouldn't it?...there should be something in the fossil record that shows massive extinctions consistent with the impacts..so where are they?...some organisms that depended on sunlight managed to survive..how do you explain this? we have had a documented case in the Krakatoan explosion that mimiced this so called event..yet there were no worldwide extinction of life on earth..crop failures, and temperature changes..the Bible is often silent on meteorites..thus many creationists feel that this has no impact on the so called evidence...it may be mentioned from an apocalyptic verse but to be dogmatic is not a requirement...If I could find evidence that showed that this collision occured later or earlier than previously thought, a difference of maybe thousands of years then this may disprove the contention that meteors killed the dinosaurs..let see ...hmm..whoa heres one: http://abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s1056908.htm
"An ancient meteorite collision that created a vast crater off the coast of Mexico may not have triggered the extinction of the dinosaurs, according to an international team of scientists.
They say the collision off the Yucatan peninsula happened 300,000 years
before the mass extinction, too early to have killed the dinosaurs by itself."
You have to find another smoking gun i guess
The question was how do these craters (and the impacts they represent) fit in with the YEC model? You seem to be saying that since the bible doesn't mention them, it isn't important. Does this mean there were no impacts? Or are you implying that they had no effect on the climate or life on earth? Or are you saying you don't know?
Ice ages aren't mentioned in the bible either (strangely). Does that mean they did not happen, or were not very important? Modern YEC models seem to feel the need to incorporate at least one ice age, so shouldn't these impact craters be accomodated?
By the way, the Krakatoa eruption was not at all equivalent to an asteroid impact, and is therefore not a good comparison.
By the way, the Krakatoa eruption was not at all equivalent to an asteroid impact, and is therefore not a good comparison.
Right Krakatoa was a wimpy little volcano. The Chixulub impact is estimated to have released between 1 and 3 million times as much energy(1-3x 10^31 ergs vs 10^25). Even as volcanoes go Krakatoa wasn't much. It was only a VEI 6. The Toba and Fish Canyon supervolcanoes were both VEI 8s making them on the order of hundreds of times bigger depending on the criterion used. The Yellowstone eruptions were also much bigger than Krakatoa. We better hope Yellowstone doesn't go off again any time soon.
not really. whether there is correlation or not is unimportant at this stage - the question to you, is how do you fit all of those meteorite impacts into your YEC framework? you are also using a very highly contested bit of research there too, not that it would prove any major problem to an old earth and evolution if it is correct - it would give you another impact to slot into your flood year or whatever though.
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Besides, most paleoherpetologists seem to feel that the extinction of the dinosaurs was caused by a combination of three events:
1. The Deccan Traps "eruptions" (I dislike the term for level-surface lava flows, but there doesn't seem to be an alternative)
2. The Chicxulub impact
3. A simultaneous general decline in the number of species in each dinosaur family, so that there were fewer chances for any one species to survive and carry on that family's traits.
None of the three is considered the cause; all in concert contributed, and which specifically killed the last dinosaurs is immaterial.
The Siberian Traps, by the way, are associated with the Permian/Triassic mass extinction event, which, aside from an ice age several tens of millions of years previously, has no other proposed cause.
In discussing the effects of volcanoes vs. impact events, you might also want to pick up on the eruptions of Thera (fall of Minoan civilization) and Tambora (1815 -- leading to 1816 as "the year without a summer").
the Bible is often silent on meteorites..thus many creationists feel that this has no impact on the so called evidence...it may be mentioned from an apocalyptic verse but to be dogmatic is not a requirement...
<snip more off-topic meandering>
So your answer is... you have no answer. Why am I not surprised?
Any other creationists want to give this a try and explain how various meteorite impacts fit in over the last 6000 or so years?
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
These impacts took place when the water canopy fell from the sky during the flood. It so happens that God put some big rocks in the water up there.
Namaste,
Chris
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