Theistic Evolution and Genesis 1:21-25

Bulldog · #1 16th February 2004, 07:00 PM

Hello. First I'd like to say that I do not wish to attack theistic evolution, I have yet to take a position. But I'm wondering what theistic evolutionists say about Genesis 1:21-25:

"Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good."

(All emphasis added by me)

Bushido216 · #2 16th February 2004, 07:47 PM

What's your point? The "kind" thing?

I can see where this is going to go. You want me to say how I can get around the fact that Genesis says that a dog prodoces a dog and evolution says that a bird produces a turtle, right?

Bulldog · #3 16th February 2004, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Bushido216

What's your point? The "kind" thing?

I can see where this is going to go. You want me to say how I can get around the fact that Genesis says that a dog prodoces a dog and evolution says that a bird produces a turtle, right?

All I want to know is your view on these verses. I'm not going to debate you.

LewisWildermuth · #4 16th February 2004, 08:41 PM

BullDog, have you ever studied the Babylonian gods or the Egyptian gods and their associated creation myths?

Gen 1 is a beautiful deconstruction of those myths placing God above their gods. It was probably a great tool in keeping the early Hebrew from switching to either of the compeating major religions of the day.

ThePhoenix · #5 16th February 2004, 09:05 PM

This sort of logic was a partial inspiration for my post on genesis. See it for why you shouldn't take that book too literally.

Bushido216 · #6 16th February 2004, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bulldog

All I want to know is your view on these verses. I'm not going to debate you.

You want me to trap myself into a logical fallacy. Do you realize how many times I've seen this arguement?

Anyway: Evolution works through tiny changes. Genetically speaking, each successful generation is only marginally different from their parent generation. However, it is the accumulation of these differences that leads to speciation. So, yes, each individual produces "after their kind".

Bulldog · #7 16th February 2004, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by Bushido216

You want me to trap myself into a logical fallacy. Do you realize how many times I've seen this arguement?

Anyway: Evolution works through tiny changes. Genetically speaking, each successful generation is only marginally different from their parent generation. However, it is the accumulation of these differences that leads to speciation. So, yes, each individual produces "after their kind".

Thanks. That's all I needed to know.

Bushido216 · #8 16th February 2004, 11:44 PM

Yeah, sure, have a blast.

And thanks for the reputation point.

lucaspa · #9 17th February 2004, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Bulldog

Hello. First I'd like to say that I do not wish to attack theistic evolution, I have yet to take a position. But I'm wondering what theistic evolutionists say about Genesis 1:21-25:

"Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

Gen 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good."

(All emphasis added by me)

Bushido may have given you the wrong impression of TE. Your emphasis suggests the view that one kind can't change to another. In creationist jargon, it's microevolution vs macroevolution.

TEs simply say that these verses are not literal. The evidence in God's Creation says emphatically that one kind can indeed change to another kind. There are no barriers to such change and the fossil record documents changes of this kind (pun intended).

Now, I side with Karl. At the time Genesis 1 was written, both the Egyptians and Babylonians believed that animals had spirits -- minor gods. Hawks were associated with Horus, for example, and thought to be children of Horus. These verses eliminate that aspect of polytheism. Hawks can't be children of Horus because all birds are created objects of Yahweh.

Or, put another way, the verses convey a theological message and are not meant to be literal history.

Bushido216 · #10 17th February 2004, 11:33 AM

What'd I do wrong? I said that the differences between each generation were tiny and that they accumulated to produce speciation.

What?

BTW, check out my new thread in the S,C&E forum.