Dinosaurs and the Age of the Earth

I'll admit, I am not a very firm believer in Jesus, the Bible or anything like that. In my mind, not to insult anyone, it is silly.

But, to be fair, I want to ask your opinion on some things.


1. How old is the Earth? What proof do you have?

The Earth is 165 million years old, through modern science, [which is how we have gotten this far, not the grace of God but by our own intelligence] it has been discovered by exmaining rocks how old the Earth actually is.

I am only 17 years old, and I know that what science tells us is true.

How else can you explain the different types of "cave-people" or Homo species that evolved into man?

How else can you explain the differences between so many animals? Such as zebras and horses.

How can you explain that hundreds of different bug species are been found all the time in the Amazon?


2. Dinosaurs? Where did they come from?

Dinosaurs, I am a big fan of dinosaurs and know quite a lot about them. I know that dinosaurs evolved from tiny creatures that crawled out of the sea 165 million years ago.

I know that some types of dinosaurs evolved from smaller to larger, but like Raptors [Velociraptors] they evolved from 23 foot long animals to 6 foot long animals.

Most other animals evolve smaller to larger, such as horses [they were originally VERY tiny].


3. Variation in animals

How can you explain, by Bible terms, why one animal is different from another in a different region.

To make it simiple, lets use two animals. Elephants and Lions.

The African Elephant is a large animal, with large tusks, large ears and a greyish skin coloration. They are heavily built and designed to move about in wide open ranges.



The Asian Elephant is a smaller animal, has smaller tusks, and much smaller ears. Its skin is brownish coloration and they are designed for compact forested area movement.



Now for lions.

African lions have manes, and heavily built and like in prides of 4 to twenty members.


Mountain lions do not have manes, are not heavily built, and rarely mingle with their own kind.

Oh, and as for the apes.

Man, that is simple.


There is two different genetic lines that evolved into humans and apes. We originally came from the Old Earth apes, but due to natural selection human beings evolved from the apes.

As the Earth changed, the surrounding area supported animals that were able to walk upright, rather than swing from trees.

Chimps are our closest relatives, they use tools, which is what the original first man did.

This is what is DIFFERENT.

Not god.

umm, dating methods show it to be 4.55 billion years old this correlates with the dating methods that date comets too.
actually alot longer ago than that. Even the therapsids were evolving about 200 million years ago (reptile -> mammal transitionals.)
not sure on this one, but I haven't heard of the raptors evolving from big to small. I think they were dinos that just stayed small.

no insult, but you still have alot to learn I think, stick around though, there are alot of people here with alot of knowledge

__________________
MSci MSc ARCS DIC PhD..... yes, I am bragging.

You're out a few years there. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, 165 million years is when the dinosaurs were around.

__________________
Greatest Hovind quote of all time, as voted for by members of CF:
"Teaching the pagan religion of evolutionism is a waste of valuable class time and textbook space. It is also one of the reasons American kids don't test as well in science as kids in other parts of the world."

I recommend looking at Zoom dinosaurs as a place to start learning a little more about them.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/

*shakes head*

Saying "evolution is right!" is no excuse for ignorance. Thankfully this is a good place to learn.

Be careful about what you post, and look to the more senior members for education

Oh, and welcome to the forum!

The Rock Hound

__________________
"Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do."

"I would rather offend God a thousand times and save one life than spend a lifetime in hollow praise, not understanding the universe or it's workings, just to save my own soul." -AstonomyMike

Actually the earth is quite young.
As you well know, the evidence of the actual fiat of creation was destroyed in the flood. The evidence the YEC present is chiefly flood evidence.
Although, Polonium Halo's can be considered as evidence of a rapid fromation of the Basalts.
Not to mention that C-14 hasn't met equilibrium as of yet...which it should have if the earth is as old as some claim.
Many say the continents should have eroded by now, that is if the continents are as old as some claim.
Judging from the erosion rate of Niagra falls as it retreats from lake Ontario, the falls are much much younger than the old earthers claim.
The observation of the earth population and population growth also support a recent creation.
We also must not forget the decay of the magnetic field of the earth which STRONGLY indicate a young earth and recent creation along with the recession rate of the moon that would have put it too close to earth a few billion years ago.The low amount of helium in the earth atmosphere and the low level of salt in the ocean also say young earth. Not to mention that the sediments in the ocean would be higher is another example of a young earth. Polystrata trees are also a good example and proof that strata forms quickly and not over millions upon millions of years. The soft sediment deformation of rock strata is a very good indicator of a rapid folding of the pre-hardened rocks and not millions upon millions of years as the continents drifted slowly. The rapid formation of the Grand Canyon when the Hopi and Grand lakes broke through their damns show how it could have been formed in a very short period of time and not millions of years. The Mt St. Helen Volcano and after results PROVED the possibility of quick canyon formation.

Here is a list of other reasons as to why the earth CAN’T possible be 4.5 BY old.
Personally I haven't investigated each item as I cut and pasted them from somewhere a little while ago. I also don't claim to understand each topic presented in the list. But the point is there is a lot of scientific objection to a 4.5BY old earth or a 16 BY old universe.


1. The amount of dust on the moon's surface - I understand this argument is generally no longer used due to more up to date rates of processes and info. being utilized (i.e. Snelling's article in TEN Tech J)
2. Lack of meteorites in the geologic column
3. The Poynting-Robertson Effect on Cosmic Dust Sphericals
4. The Abundance of Short-period comets v.s. its average life-span
5. Io being geologically active
6. The Moon, i.e. Lunar Material with high levels of radioactivity
7. Types of Radiation that shouldn't be in existence on the Moon
8. Turbulance & instability of Saturn's Rings
9. Existence of 3 Giant Dust Rings that circle the solar system
10. Rock-Flow of Lunar Material v.s. craters of the Moon
11. Lack of emitted Neutrinos from the sun
12. The chemical composition of stars being roughly the same
13. Star clusters gravitationally bound yet containing stars with vastly different thurmonuclear-burn
sequences
14. Paradox between the expected nuclear-fusion temperature history of the sun and the temperature
history of the Earth
15. Controversy over our Shrinking Sun
16. The White Dwarf Star Sirius B Mystery
17. The Missing Mass Problem
18. Velocity of Light Deccaying with Time idea
19. Lack of Helium in Earth's Atmosphere
20. Problems with Radioactive Clocks
21. Age of Diatoms v.s. fossil skeleton of a Baleen Whale on End
22. Lack of erosional lines separating depositional formations
23. Polystrate Fossils in Sedimentary Rocks
24. Tilt of the Earth Axis based on Astronomical Evidence via. Eudoxus, Stonehenge & Solar Temple of
Amen-Ra
25. Geocentric Pleochroic Polonium Halos in Precambrian Granite & Coalified Wood
26. The Second Law of Thermodynamics
27. Oil & Natural Gas - their existence
28. Carbon-14 Disintegration v.s. production
29. Decay of the Earth's Magnetic Moment
30. Dinosaur Tracks & Man Tracks at Paluxy - Generally no longer used by most creationists
31. Large Stars - Mass problems
32. Delta Filling - Rate of growth of delta
33. Ocean Chemical Concentrations - Much less than what they should be
34. Erosion of the Continents - Problems with supposed time involved
35. History - Record of man's existence
36. Dendrochonology - Age of trees much less than what they could be
37. Sea Ooze - Lack of sea ooze on ocean floors
38. Rotation of the Earth - Rotation much to fast by evolutionary standards
39. Ocean Sediment - Rate of sediment added to the oceans precludes an old ocean
40. Volcanic Water & Rocks - Time problem based on present rate of rock accretion
41. Mutation load - Lack of it indicates biological world couln't have vast antiquity
42. Population Statistics
43. Earth Heat - Earth young based on considerations of existing temperature gradient in the earth and its
rate of cooling
44. The existence of Lunar Inert Gases
45. Stalagmites & Stalactites
46. The existence & depth of topsoil
47. Certain Geological features a) unconsolidated rock b) various fossils & minerals & their current rate of
formation c) the lack of uniformitarian horizontal layers of sedimentary rocks blending & d) meandering
serpentine course of many rivers and canyons
48. Niagra Falls and the rate of its edge wearing away
49. The existence of Hydrogen still in the universe
50. The existence of Atmospheric Oxygen
51. Grand Canyon Dating
52. Dating of the Cardenas Basalts
53. Basalts on the Rim of the Grand Canyon
54. Age of Meteorites/Earth & Allende
55. Recent Dating of Civilization
56. Plate Tectonics and the age of the Earth
57. Salt in the Ocean
58. Rocks on the Earth's Surface
59. Various Surface Features of the Earth (such as ripple marks, raindrop impressions, animal tracks)
60. Bioturbation - Deficiency of evidence of living communities within a layer of rock
61. Lack of soil layers anywhere in the geologic column
62. Undisturbed Bedding Planes
63. Soft-Sediment Deformation
64. Clastic Dikes
65. Limited extent of unconformities
66. Lack of evidence of in situ petrified tree stumps
67. Escape of methane from Titan
68. The Recession of the Moon
69. The presence of star clusters
70. The sudden appearance of Advanced Life forms
71. The permanence of prototypes
72. Absence of Transitional Forms
73. The Nature of Fossilization & the Fossils themselves
74. Preservation of Soft Parts
75. Sirius B White Dwarf & observation

This is really cute. 59 Says animal tracks are evidence for a young earth. 60 Says lack of bioturbation is evidence for a young earth. I've got some news for you. Animal tracks are bioturbation. Why doesn't it bother YECs at all to post "evidences" the directly contradict each other.

The entire post is just a rehash of the PRATT (Points Refuted a Thousand Times) list. The ones that are not directly false (for instance fossil soils and places with extensive bioturbation are well known) are irrelevant to the age of the earth. As an example there is no reason that Niagra falls should be anywhere near as old as the earth. Some of them are actually backwards. Interplanetary dust accumulation actually supports an ancient earth and not a young earth or global flood.
http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/idp.htm

Detailed refutations of all this nonsense have been available for a long time. I sure they will be pointed out. I don't have the time right now but will get those other don't cover later if necessary.

The frumious Bandersnatch

Lets just start with point number 2. There's been over 200 recorded meteorite strikes. How does this mean a LACK of meteorites in the geological column? That's an average of one per 30 years if the earth is 6000 years old. Think we might have noticed that?

Durang0, do you ever get tired of spouting the same tired junk? Possibly you just have a lot of ready-made messages you can cut and paste - otherwise I salute your endurance, as that much typing would easily have me running for an icepack for my wrists.

Refuted. The magnetic field strength has been shown to have waxed and wabed before, typically around the time of a magnetic reversal if I remember correctly. As for the recession rate of the moon - I'm happy to say that a postgraduate student in the Geology Dept of my university developed an excellent computer model of the changing distance of the Moon from the Earth, which was subsequently borne out by tidal data from coral fossils.

False. There are significant differences in strain markers for soft sediment deformation and those for lithified rock. The strain history of any rock can be determined by examining these - particularly when there are mineral veins and inclusions. They are easily distinguished from each other.

How, exactly? The Mt. St. Helens eruption was spectacular, yes, but I saw no mention of a canyon appearing after it. Unless you are referring to the side of the mountain that was destroyed in the event?

The fact that you posted a long, unreferenced cut and pasted list is doing nothing to help your position. Many of these make no sense whatsoever.

...that geologists are well aware of, and have been aware of for some time now - leading to them taking extreme care in the selection of samples to be tested? I assume that you are referring to possible contamination - such as in the Rb/Sr method.

What lines would they be then? Unconformities? Disconformities? Paraconformities? These all exist in abundance, all over the world. Why does the notion that there could be long periods of sustained deposition disprove an old Earth?

I just can't go through your entire list and pick out everything I am capable of refuting. What would be the point, when you seem to have no interest in educating yourself... However if there are one or two geological points you wish to address, I'll happily stick around.

The Rock Hound

__________________
"Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do."

"I would rather offend God a thousand times and save one life than spend a lifetime in hollow praise, not understanding the universe or it's workings, just to save my own soul." -AstonomyMike