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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #11  
Old 27th March 2004, 02:07 PM
Theoretical Physicist

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Originally Posted by True_Blue
You know, that's the thing, Jet Black. Our human minds are more complex and more powerful than anything we can physically observe in the universe. So while we can't know whether or not the universe is infinite (because infinity is not one of our properties), we can know whether or not our mathematical ideas are consistent with the visible universe. We are capable of understanding concepts such as chance, and from statistics, we know that chance cannot create usable information. So we can know that chance cannot result in life, which is a system of incredibly complex and meaningful information. We can understand biology, but we cannot understand ourselves. We can understand cells, but we cannot understand God.

Wrong - where did you get this statistics implies chance cannot create useable information?

What are you defining as 'usable information'?
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  #12  
Old 27th March 2004, 02:34 PM
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reason, evidence

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Originally Posted by True_Blue
It's a mistake to say that a mathematical principle principle like the one Godel described doesn't work in the real world.
It does work in the real world, but because it deals with finite state machines and deductive reasoning, it is only applicable to real-world applications like computers. It has very few applications to physics, cosmology, chemistry, biology or other sciences as they do not make use of finite state machines, and do not attempt to codify a series of axioms which must be both complete and capable of validating themselves.

I firmly believe this paradigm that Godel describes tells us what we are capable of understanding, and what we are incapable of understanding, and knowing the limits of what our mind can understand is incredibly liberating, but humbling at the same time.
This isn't what Godel's theorem says. It doesn't say anything about understanding or limits of knowledge or the mind. It just says that any axiomatic system cannot prove itself and still be consistent.
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