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  #11  
Unread 3rd February 2004, 08:23 AM
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I know for a fact that they dont listen because I argued with them for a year in General Apologetics and nothing you say makes any difference,
actually, don't sell yourself short. i know from firsthand experience that some good (although rare i admit) comes from debating in there. kiwirob aka papist (once he converted) comes to mind. i remember feeling like i was beating my head against a brick wall trying to debate with him and then we started taking it to pm's and IM and witnessed my heart out then it's like he disappeared from the forums for awhile and when he came back, he pm'd me and told me that he was converting to Christianity because it finally dawned on him that there was just no way he could refute anyone anymore without believe we were all totally delusional which he siad we obviously weren't! *true story*
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  #12  
Unread 3rd February 2004, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kimber1
actually, don't sell yourself short. i know from firsthand experience that some good (although rare i admit) comes from debating in there. kiwirob aka papist (once he converted) comes to mind. i remember feeling like i was beating my head against a brick wall trying to debate with him and then we started taking it to pm's and IM and witnessed my heart out then it's like he disappeared from the forums for awhile and when he came back, he pm'd me and told me that he was converting to Christianity because it finally dawned on him that there was just no way he could refute anyone anymore without believe we were all totally delusional which he siad we obviously weren't! *true story* [/size][/font]
Wow...was he a Christian before he was an unbeliever?
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  #13  
Unread 3rd February 2004, 08:39 AM
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yea i think he used to be a Christian and then turned unbeliever and then back again so maybe it was easier to get through to him b/c of that but he left me frustrated many a time i'll say that b/c he was so adamant about his beliefs. i remember getting really frustrated once and commenting that we weren't a bunch of mindless idiots following a myth ya know and he pm'd me very nicely apologizing for making me think that's what he thought of us and then it went from there. actually, there's a thread you may want to check out in GA now:
http://www.christianforums.com/t90117



*edited to say this isn't about kiwirob but to show you that seeds are being planted
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  #14  
Unread 3rd February 2004, 08:42 AM
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Well, I always ask, why are Peter, Paul and the others coming back with "reminders" so that they remain firm in the faith, if OSAS is true? Basically they are wasting their time writing for nothing!

"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." - 1 Corinthians 9:27

"If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 3:11-14

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." - Matthew 10:22

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Matthew 24:13

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." - Mark 13:13

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." - Matthew 7:21

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed." - John 8:31

"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him." - James 1:12

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them." - 2 Peter 2:20-21
  #15  
Unread 3rd February 2004, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bastoune
Well, I always ask, why are Peter, Paul and the others coming back with "reminders" so that they remain firm in the faith, if OSAS is true? Basically they are wasting their time writing for nothing!

][/b]
I have often wondered that, too! It just seems so srtaightforward to me- but obviously that is not the case for everyone!!

In the Sacred Heart of Jesus,
Shannon
  #16  
Unread 3rd February 2004, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ShannonMcMorland
I have often wondered that, too! It just seems so srtaightforward to me- but obviously that is not the case for everyone!!

In the Sacred Heart of Jesus,
Shannon
Its not easy when they have pre-conceived notions that make OSNAS impossible...they simply ignore those problem verses or come up with some bizarre hand-waving explanation of them to believe OSAS.
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Unread 3rd February 2004, 12:51 PM
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OSAS is, in my opinion, a security blanket, which gives a false sense of security. I wonder who would want to give Christians a false sense of security, so they'll think that nomatter what they do, they will avoid hell....hmm
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Unread 3rd February 2004, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by InnerPhyre
OSAS is, in my opinion, a security blanket, which gives a false sense of security. I wonder who would want to give Christians a false sense of security, so they'll think that nomatter what they do, they will avoid hell....hmm
Its also a marketing technique - when you can attract people to church by saying "Get saved here!! Heaven guaranteed!!"

There's actually a place near me called "The Soul Saving Station."
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  #19  
Unread 3rd February 2004, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Hebrews 10:26-31
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," and again, "The Lord will judge his people." It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
It is certainly a very strong argument against OSAS.
After the persecutions started @64 AD, some weak Christians committed apostasy. They could not avail themselves of the sacrament of reconciliation unless they repented of their apostasy. It is natural and understandable that many Christians did not want to embrace the repentant apostates, but they did so. Many repentant apostates were required to do severe penances.
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  #20  
Unread 3rd February 2004, 03:35 PM
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You know every time i have debated the issue of OSAS I am never disappointed because along with the old I know that a new argument will come up in there somehow. But I think the best one of all that I ever heard was that it can't be true and all of those scriptures weren't meant for us because God is too loving and wouldn't do that to us.
Then the altime shocker for me was the time that someone said that they were Christian and they were saved but then didn't believe in the Bible either OT or NT nor that Christ walked the earth the way the Bible said because she couldn't trust the Bible. Also then discounted all of Christ's teachings. Now did I tell you this person said they were Christ...ian.
They come up with all types of excuses to discount things they are not comfortable with.
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Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice from the throne, saying: Behold the tabernacle of God with men: and he will dwell with them. And they shall be his people: and God himself with them shall be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes: and death shall be no more. Nor mourning, nor crying, nor sorrow shall be any more, for the former things are passed away.


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