WOF'ers AND THE BOOK OF REVELATION?

victoryword · #11 21st September 2004, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Trish1947

I really am curious now about the Book of Revelation.. It seems to me all these years that this book is basicly scanned quickly in WOF circles. Can someone tell me why? This is the most interpreted, misinterpreted book in the Bible. However, it was given by revelation to John. Can't we understand it by the same God given Revelation? Has any WOF's done any exaustive studies of Revelation? I accept its the Revelation of Jesus Christ, and I read the back of the book and we win!

Trish, Hilton Sutton is a WoFer and an End Times Bible Teacher. He wrote an exhaustive study on the book. When I owned it, it was published by Harrison House, Kenneth Hagin's son-in-law's publishing company. You can get it here:

http://www.hilton-sutton.org/store/detail.aspx?ID=2

I don't know if Finis Dake would be considered WoF (I would) but he also wrote an exhaustive study on the book of Revelation. You can order it from his webpage.

Suffolk Sean · #12 21st September 2004, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by victoryword

Trish, Hilton Sutton is a WoFer and an End Times Bible Teacher. He wrote an exhaustive study on the book. When I owned it, it was published by Harrison House, Kenneth Hagin's son-in-law's publishing company. You can get it here:

http://www.hilton-sutton.org/store/detail.aspx?ID=2

I don't know if Finis Dake would be considered WoF (I would) but he also wrote an exhaustive study on the book of Revelation. You can order it from his webpage.

Yes Hilton Sutton did, I found it particularly specualtive. Charles Capps and Kenneth Copeland did a few televisions shows on it and the series is called Faith for the End Times.
I think you can get if from the KCM website.

Personally I think the Book of Revelation says what it is about, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Look up Lynn Hiles, he does some darn good stuff on Revelation and none of it is Escatological.

Ecclesiastes · #13 21st September 2004, 07:52 PM

Check out Hilton Sutton at http://www.hilton-sutton.org/ He's the most accurate on End Time events and has been studying this area for at least 60 years of his ministry. He has held Ecshatology Conferences at our church before. He's an excellent teacher.

Andrew · #14 23rd September 2004, 06:43 AM

I think Sister Bille Brym teaches on end-times too, by watching what happens to/in Israel. She travels and ministers in Israel a lot. She also wrote the book The Blood and the Glory.

She's very much WOF, since she worked for the late Kenneth E. Hagin, ghost-writing many of his books.

Andry · #15 30th September 2004, 01:41 AM

Originally Posted by riverpastor

I'm so eschatologically defensive at times that I am quick to point out that there are so many opposing views in the book of Revelation that no one group is right in its interpretation.

I have my own views of eschatology but I do not teach them publicly, for I believe, as Didaskalos says, that we do not have the fullness of its revelation yet.

RP, I'm leaning towards a similar perspective as you on things eschatological. But I also believe many of us have got the focus wrong - not necessarily the doctrine, but the focus. We've got our eyes on the wrong thing; instead of being concerned about, and understand in, the responsibility and mission of the church of Jesus until he returns, we get too easily distracted on the supposed movements of this anti-christ, one world government, new age, conspiracies.....

So let me offer a counterpoint to this:

I’m of the profound opinion that there are too many people looking for the manifestation of the man of sin than the manifestation of the Sons of God. Now the most important thing in our generation to the church, imo, is not understanding about the manifestation of the man of sin, it’s understanding about the manifestation of the Sons of God. Because I believe until the Sons of God are manifested, Jesus is not coming back.

And for generations people have been saying, ‘It’s now, it’s now, these are the signs of the times, Jesus is coming.’ But we are still waiting. We are waiting for God, but I believe God is waiting for us. And when we do what we are supposed to do He can do what He promised He will do, and Jesus will come back again. But I don’t know whether Jesus will come back again in my lifetime. I’m going to do my heartfelt best to ensure that He does come back in my lifetime, and during my generation.

I am more interested in understanding the Christ, not the anti-Christ. And the trouble is there’s probably more money in people understanding the anti-Christ and there is understanding the Christ. And a lot of people are propagating that. But I want to understand the Christ, I want to understand His anointing, I want to understand His revelation, and then we get to the third step, which is we shouldn’t be signing ‘I’ll fly away,’ we should be praying ‘Your kingdom come.’

And the trouble is the church has believed its own publicity for too long, and wasted its time singing ‘I’ll fly away O glory,’ and not spending enough time saying, ‘Your kingdom come, your will be done, here on earth, like it is in heaven.’ Now if we can grasp those simple principles I believe we have hope in our generation.

You don’t measure the success of the church by the number of people inside. You measure the success of the church by the number of people outside. And so when we look at the church at large, it’s not doing very well is it? But God set up the church to succeed. The Bible tells me that when the church is presented to Christ in Ephesians 5, that it is a glorious church, a radiant church. And I believe that God is wanting to raise up a glorious and a radiant church in our generation. But unless we have a different mentality and a significant impact upon our thinking, we will not be the generation who see the coming of Christ.

Matthew 1:17
17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ. NIV

So we have three sections of generations brought out to us in Matthew 1:17. 14 generations from Abraham to David, 14 generations from David to the exile in Babylon, and 14 from the exile to the Christ. So we’ve got 42 generations, from Abraham to Christ.

Now if we count up all the generations, it actually only adds up to 41. But the Bible says there are 42 generations. So which is the name that is missing? What is the other name that’s mentioned there? Christ. Born Jesus, called Christ.

And we find a wonderful revelation here that there are two generations, in the one man. The 41st generation is Jesus, the 42nd generation is Christ.

The Bible only says things if it’s important, so there must be an important revelation here to be understood. Jesus said:
- He was the fulfillment of the law – Rom 10:4
- He was the end of the old – 2 Cor 5:17, Heb 10:9
- He was the last of Adam’s race – 1 Cor 15:45

Jesus was flesh: He was man, he was born man, he came out of a virgin, but he was human flesh. Because if Jesus was God, he couldn’t die – because God can’t die. But Jesus was the incarnate God who had become a man. So He became the end of Adam’s race. The end of a race in which 1 Cor 15:22 says, ‘In Adam all die… So in order for Jesus to die he had to be in Adam. He had to have a natural side to what he was; a natural part to him, and natural element to His life. And so we come as far as Jesus, in Adam all die, but what does it say after that? ‘....but in Christ, all are made alive.’

There is a transference of two generations in the one man. In Jesus, the old has ended. Jesus never had that name until he was born on earth. John 1:1, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was made flesh,’ but the prophesy says, ‘And you shall call his name Jesus.’ Matt 1:21

Now why was His name to be called Jesus? For He shall save his people from their sins. What does the name Jesus mean? It means Saviour. So we come to Jesus, and we come to the Saviour. But then there is a generation beyond that.

What the name Christ means? Anointed. So we come to one who is Saviour, but there is another generation that is anointed. But the generations are separated.

Therefore it is possible to come to Jesus, it is possible to have the forgiveness of sins, it is possible to be going to heaven when you die, but stiill not be part of the 42nd generation.

Now here’s the issue - the 42nd generation, the generation of Christ – is the last recorded generation in the Bible. The Word of God is very strict in the recording of generations, we have them all the way from Adam recorded for us through the Bible, but the last recorded generation is the generation of the Christ.

I must therefore draw this conclusion: that when that generation is manifested, Jesus can come back. The Christ can come back. He can leave heaven’s throne and He can come back. But the key issue is, until the 42nd generation walks the earth in the power of its anointing, Jesus can’t come back.

Now here’s another issue: We have a whole generation in the church that understands that Jesus is Saviour, understands the forgiveness of sins by the blood of the Lamb, but has not come to understand that there is a generational anointing that has to come. Now there are even those who speak in tongues, who are not 42nd generation believers. Because it’s more than speaking in tongues. We are talking about an anointing that changes the world.

What I believe is a very simple principle: there are 6 billion people approximately in our world today. So I believe that unless 3 billion people are won to Jesus, that Jesus didn’t win at all, in the eternal battle. You see it’s really quite simple – if you’ve got a football game, and the New York Giants scored 45, and the Dallas Cowboys scored 21, who won? The New York Giants. Now you can say that Dallas played well, Dallas performed well, Dallas had a good game plan, Dallas had great intensity, but they lost.

But because we’ve only come to 41st generational thinking, we have this remnant mentality, that Jesus can come and if we can just squeeze together 500 million, 600 million, 900 million, just a few to take home, then Jesus could take them and the cross would have been victorious. No, He would’ve lost. Because the devil would’ve taken 5 billion people to hell. So he lost a billion, but he got 5/6th of the prize.

The great prize that He desires is you and me. For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son. John 3:16.

The great prize is humanity. Now I can’t conceive for a moment that Jesus will come again until the battle is won. And the battle He’s talking about is not Armageddon; the battle He’s talking about is not the battle for Jerusalem, the battle He’s talking about is not the battle for Israel. The battle He’s talking about is the battle for the people of our world.

Now unless there is a radical change in our mentality and thinking, and a release of a new anointing, we are not going to succeed. But, the Bible tells me that he came to raise up a 42nd generation – who are the anointed generation of the Christ, who has what it takes to achieve that goal, so that Jesus can come back again. I sincerely believe that our generation can take our world for Jesus.

And if you've noticed, I haven't mentioned anywhere worrying about the devil doing this or that.

Just my thoughts.

Trish1947 · #16 30th September 2004, 02:53 AM

Andry

RP, I'm leaning towards a similar perspective as you on things eschatological. But I also believe many of us have got the focus wrong - not necessarily the doctrine, but the focus. We've got our eyes on the wrong thing; instead of being concerned about, and understand in, the responsibility and mission of the church of Jesus until he returns, we get too easily distracted on the supposed movements of this anti-christ, one world government, new age, conspiracies.....

I am in agreement here also. The is alot of talk of the anti-Christ. But my conclusion is that we are going to leave this earth victorious.. But I try to look at what is the condition of the Church when he does arrive. I dont think he's interested in a watered down, beat up church, thats just sitting around letting things go to heck in a hand basket. Thats been going on for years. There's no hurry for him to come. Now when the church finally wakes up and takes her place, and see who they actually are. the Sons of God, then the AC will show up. So I'm hoping when it is time for the AC to show up, that we are spiritually healthy as horses, so to speak. We must be in pretty good shape as a church at that point in time, because it brings Jesus back!