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16th September 2004, 06:11 PM
|  | No Surrender, No desertion - Whatever Happens. 24  | | Join Date: 1st November 2003 Location: a round blue, brown and green sphere, floating in space.....
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Reps: 76,605 (power: 89) | | | Baptist Sacraments and Ministers Hi! My questions regard the two Sacraments recognized by Baptist/Anabaptist churches, Communion(Lord's Supper?) and Baptism.
1-Is an ordained minister required to perform a baptism?
1a- In the even tthat a non-baptized person was dying, and there was no possibility that a minister could baptize them, would a non-ordained person be allowed to confer the sacrament?
2-How do Baptists/Anabaptists regard the Lord's Supper? Is an ordained minister required for this sacrament?
Thanks!
__________________ "There is one true Church, the really ancient Church into which are enrolled those who are righteous according to God's ordinance.... In essence, in idea, in origin, in preeminence we say that the ancient Catholic Church is the only Church." - Clement of Alexandria, Stromata | 
16th September 2004, 06:14 PM
|  | Fanatic 38  | | Join Date: 29th January 2003 Location: Canada
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The word you're looking for is ordinance.
1. No, ordination is not necessary to perform a baptism.
1 a. Baptism is not necessary for salvation, so there is no reason to baptize a dying person.
2. No, ordination is not necessary to perform the Lord's supper. It is a remembrance not a magic spell that transforms a cracker into flesh.
Yer welcome
__________________ And I asked Jesus, How much do you love me? This much, He answered. Then he stretched out His arms and died. | 
16th September 2004, 06:16 PM
| | It means 'yellow dog'

| | Join Date: 16th January 2002
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Reps: 16,995 (power: 44) | | | In Anabaptist churches, many pastors are not "ordained" in the ceremonial sense, and any believer can baptize another believer. I was baptized in this way. My friend and neighbor, not a pastor, baptized me, and it is considered just as valid as if a pastor did it.
If a non-baptized person is dying, they could only be baptized if they made a confession of faith in Christ as savior, and then they could be baptized by any believer, but baptism is not necessary for salvation, so it wouldn't be the end of the world if the person couldn't be baptized at all.
The Lord's table can be administered by any believer, but in many churches, it is administered by male elders out of tradition, but any believer can give or partake of communion without a minister being present.
See, we believe that we are all ministers, and that the sacriments are symbols of our submission to God, not something which confers grace in and of itself.
__________________ Carry only love. Hate is a burden that is tremendously heavy. If you want to live like Jesus, love your enemies and give up your life for them. | 
16th September 2004, 06:18 PM
| | It means 'yellow dog'

| | Join Date: 16th January 2002
Posts: 17,498
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Reps: 16,995 (power: 44) | | Originally Posted by BT Sacrament? Ack!
It is a remembrance not a magic spell that transforms a cracker into flesh.
Yer welcome
Please forgive BT. He's upfront about being a fanatic.
__________________ Carry only love. Hate is a burden that is tremendously heavy. If you want to live like Jesus, love your enemies and give up your life for them. | 
16th September 2004, 06:45 PM
|  | Loving my life! 29 
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Reps: 145,703,642,171,364,096 (power: 145,703,642,171,396) | | | In my church You have to be Ordinaned to baptiz someone. We also believe a person is suppose to be Ordinaed to marry someone, to be a pastor, and last but not lease but to do a funneral services. In my Church we have I believe 3 Ordinaed men.
Melissa
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16th September 2004, 06:54 PM
|  | I am, therefore I love 30  | | Join Date: 7th February 2004 Location: Ohio
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Reps: 790 (power: 0) | | In the SBC church that I grew up in, only ordained ministers could baptize and administer communion. I didn't know that that practice varied.  I do know that Baptists do not see baptism and communion as Sacraments but rather as "acts of obedience." In that light, it would seem fine for any member of the church body to administer these rites. However, at least where I was from in the south, only pastors were allowed to do them.
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16th September 2004, 08:13 PM
|  | Member 36  | | Join Date: 24th February 2003 Location: TX
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Reps: 225 (power: 0) | | | As some have already mentioned we don't have sacraments below is from the Bapist Faith and Message describing the Southern Baptist views on this and the scriptures to back it up. VII. Baptism and the Lord's Supper
Christian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer's faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer's death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord's Supper.
The Lord's Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming. Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12. | 
16th September 2004, 08:18 PM
|  | Weisenheimer
 | | Join Date: 30th August 2003
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Reps: 52,116 (power: 77) | | Originally Posted by BT not a magic spell that transforms a cracker into flesh.
No magic spells, BT. Did you know that's where "hocus pocus" comes from - making fun of the Latin words of consecration?
__________________ Fiat voluntas tua. | 
16th September 2004, 08:55 PM
|  | Fanatic 38  | | Join Date: 29th January 2003 Location: Canada
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Reps: 112,742 (power: 124) | | | The quote was intended to differentiate between a "sacrament" and an "ordinance". In the sacrament of communion the belief is that the eucharist becomes the literal flesh, essence etc. of Christ. In the ordinance of the Lord's Supper the belief is that the cracker (that's what we use) is a remembrance of the sacrifice of Christ. So in the ordinance there is no "transformation". If you can think of a better word for saying some words, waving hands and turning bread into flesh... than magic spell... then more power to ya.
__________________ And I asked Jesus, How much do you love me? This much, He answered. Then he stretched out His arms and died. | 
16th September 2004, 09:23 PM
|  | Senior Contributor
 | | Join Date: 8th January 2004
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Reps: 7,814 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by benedictine 1-Is an ordained minister required to perform a baptism?
No, although it usually is done by the pastor or elders, in those baptist churches that have elders.
I am co-leader of a cooperative fellowship that ministers to sailors, fishermen and others around the northern Chesapeake Bay area (think Chestertown, Wharton, Georgetown, etc).
I haven't done a baptism yet but if there were one in our tiny little fellowship, I'd be the guy who did it. 1a- In the even that a non-baptized person was dying, and there was no possibility that a minister could baptize them, would a non-ordained person be allowed to confer the sacrament?
Yes but you do understand that, to the baptist, baptism isn't a requirement for salvation, right? So it's not imperative that someone be baptised before they died. 2-How do Baptists/Anabaptists regard the Lord's Supper?
In regard to what?
The Lord's Supper is simply a time of reflection and an opportunity to memorialize Christ's sacrifice on the cross.
It is purely symbolic and is not a means of imparting grace. Is an ordained minister required for this sacrament?
No. I'm the de facto music minister in my church (not ordained) and the deacons (also not ordained) and I often help out with the Lord's Supper.
By the way, someone made the point that we have "ordinances" as opposed to "sacraments". That's true but for the sake of this conversation I'll accept either one. |  | | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |