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View Poll Results: Is suffering persecution the result of a lack of faith. | |
Yes, If you suffer persecution it is because you lack faith.
|     | 1 | 5.88% | |
No, Suffering persecution is the duty of every believer, even unto death.
|    | 16 | 94.12% |
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15th September 2004, 06:46 PM
| | | | I personally believe that the suffering we endure because we are WoF is a part of the persecution that all true believers endure for the Word. If you stand for the word and refuse to back up on Him there are many who will persecute you. They think they are doing God a service. It is sad because many of them are good brothers and sisters in the Lord... but they are just missing it.
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"...do not be concerned that some do not see your message. There are those who are hungrey for truth and who are seeking light. If there is truth in what you are saying, it will ring in their hearts like a bell. Those who are seeking will find, and if what they are seeking is in your saying, they will know it."
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Dids |
15th September 2004, 07:33 PM
|  | Old Catholic Priest
39     
 | | Join Date: 23rd June 2004 Location: Tennessee
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Reps: 9,610,112 (power: 9,624) | | | Only if Jesus had a 'lack of faith'...
He was persecuted...even to death... and you'll never convince me His faith was lacking.
He also said that we would be treated worse than He was.
With that said, I think a lot of what get's called 'suffering for righteousness sake (i.e. persecution)' is really 'suffering for our own stupidity's sake'. So many times we do really stupid stuff, then when people get mad at us we try to get all spiritual and blame it on being a Christian.
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The angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear him, and he delivers them. Taste and see that the Lord is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him. Psalm 34:7-8 |
15th September 2004, 07:33 PM
|  | Take the Red Pill.
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| | Join Date: 23rd March 2004 Location: Ft. Worth
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Reps: 164,478 (power: 174) | | | I obviously voted NO, btw.
But Dids, doesn't this come off like we're "elitists"?
"Oh, you think you're special. You think only you WoF belive the Word and everyone else is below YOUR level."
I have experienced (not necessarily verbatim) this type of stuff all over these forums.
__________________ The Inheritance is yours,
riverpastor
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Galatians 3:19 - What then was the purpose of the Law? It was added because of transgressions and [to make men more conscious of the sinfulness] of sin; and it was intended to be in effect until the Seed (the Descendant, the Heir) should come, to and concerning Whom the promise had been made. |
15th September 2004, 11:55 PM
| | | Originally Posted by riverpastor I obviously voted NO, btw.
But Dids, doesn't this come off like we're "elitists"?
"Oh, you think you're special. You think only you WoF belive the Word and everyone else is below YOUR level."
I have experienced (not necessarily verbatim) this type of stuff all over these forums.
No less than Christians are considered elitiests by many non-Christians. How many times have you heard believers get asked "what makes you think you have the only way to God?" or "who are you to speak for God?"
It is really an unbelievers argument. It is an example of believers taking a page from the athiest's book on how to refute God and faith. Not a book or method I would want to be associated with.
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"...do not be concerned that some do not see your message. There are those who are hungrey for truth and who are seeking light. If there is truth in what you are saying, it will ring in their hearts like a bell. Those who are seeking will find, and if what they are seeking is in your saying, they will know it."
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Dids |
15th September 2004, 11:57 PM
| | | | So far we only have 5 votes, and all 5 are no. I do not see any pattern or even a hint that WoFers consider being persecuted as a sign of a lack of faith.
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"...do not be concerned that some do not see your message. There are those who are hungrey for truth and who are seeking light. If there is truth in what you are saying, it will ring in their hearts like a bell. Those who are seeking will find, and if what they are seeking is in your saying, they will know it."
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Dids |
16th September 2004, 08:58 AM
|  | Irish and proud of it!!!! 
43 
| | Join Date: 7th July 2004 Location: Suffolk, Va.
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Reps: 1,530 (power: 9) | | Originally Posted by didaskalos So far we only have 5 votes, and all 5 are no. I do not see any pattern or even a hint that WoFers consider being persecuted as a sign of a lack of faith.
Perhaps if you said if you died or were martyerd (sp?) it would be different. The point I made had to do most specifically with that. Not being free from persecution, but allowing one's self to die was considered a lack of faith by the people I was speaking about.
__________________ ><> ><> ><> <><><> ><> ><> swimmin' against the flow...
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1 Cor 4:20 For the kingdom of God is not in word but in power. |
16th September 2004, 11:41 AM
|  | If you have not love...
44 
| | Join Date: 17th June 2004 Location: Waynesville, Missouri
Posts: 1,571
Blessings: 34,014
Reps: 1,443 (power: 8) | | | My 2 cents:
a. Yes: Suffering By Persecution can be the Result of a Lack of Faith.
b. No: Suffering By Persecution cannot be ruled out as being the Result of a Lack of Faith.
Folks, we sinply don't have these statistics. In general, there is no direct answer to the OP question, as worded. When we get home, then we'll know what percentage was and was not the result of persecution. |
20th September 2004, 03:33 PM
|  | Senior Member
| | Join Date: 21st September 2003 Location: England
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Reps: 159 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Suffolk Sean Perhaps if you said if you died or were martyerd (sp?) it would be different. The point I made had to do most specifically with that. Not being free from persecution, but allowing one's self to die was considered a lack of faith by the people I was speaking about.
Forgive me for butting in - but I think the "WoF only" restriction was on the poll rather than on questions, yes?
I have to concur with Sean. I have heard the Copelands and Fred Price teaching that martyrdom is a choice. Kelly Copeland has taught that the scripture in Hebrews 11 which speaks of saints refusing to be delivered, so they might gain a better resurrection, means they could have been delivered by God if they wanted to, but chose not to be (it's in her book on Protecting Your Family). I believe I have also heard Psalm 91 being used as a blanket promise against physical harm too. And I seem to recall reading in KCM's edition of the Bible a comment by Kenneth Copeland saying that the only suffering we have to endure is spiritual - but I'd have to check up on that. (Hopefully he has read the Bible since then and changed his mind  - they he wrote those study notes some time ago. )
I know of at least 2 WordFaithers who believe martyrdom is optional and we don't have to suffer it in our dispensation.
Where is my question? Just this: are these views common to WoF?
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Theophilus7
"How precious to me are your thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!" (Ps. 139:17) |
20th September 2004, 04:09 PM
| | | Originally Posted by Theophilus7 Forgive me for butting in - but I think the "WoF only" restriction was on the poll rather than on questions, yes?
I have to concur with Sean. I have heard the Copelands and Fred Price teaching that martyrdom is a choice. Kelly Copeland has taught that the scripture in Hebrews 11 which speaks of saints refusing to be delivered, so they might gain a better resurrection, means they could have been delivered by God if they wanted to, but chose not to be (it's in her book on Protecting Your Family). I believe I have also heard Psalm 91 being used as a blanket promise against physical harm too. And I seem to recall reading in KCM's edition of the Bible a comment by Kenneth Copeland saying that the only suffering we have to endure is spiritual - but I'd have to check up on that. (Hopefully he has read the Bible since then and changed his mind - they he wrote those study notes some time ago. )
I know of at least 2 WordFaithers who believe martyrdom is optional and we don't have to suffer it in our dispensation.
Where is my question? Just this: are these views common to WoF?
Not the I know of. This is the first I ever heard of it.
I cannot say I agree. I do not see it.
Dids
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"...do not be concerned that some do not see your message. There are those who are hungrey for truth and who are seeking light. If there is truth in what you are saying, it will ring in their hearts like a bell. Those who are seeking will find, and if what they are seeking is in your saying, they will know it."
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Dids |
20th September 2004, 05:17 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
52
| | Join Date: 9th June 2004 Location: Deep South
Posts: 4,894
Blessings: 35,090
Reps: 13,139 (power: 0) | | Ok ok ok, I admit it. I voted yes because the Yes side just looked so beat and I can't resist pulling for the underdog!
In truth, a man without faith can't be persecuted. If a person is not in the faith then it's called casting down arguments and every high thing that exaults itself against God, not persecution.
Grace, Mercy, and Peace,
Asaph | | |
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