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  #1  
Unread 25th January 2004, 10:29 PM
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Backsliding

Can someone tell me all the scriptures the PROVE that if you die while backsliding you'll go to hell? i have read them but in the heat of the moment talking with someone i couldnt come up with anything better than
heb. 6: 4 -6
heb 10: 26 -29

can someone once and for all illustrate all there is to settle this? the arguement was as such-

my thinking is that if you die a backslider living in sin (with out repenting) you will not be remembered by christ.

her thinking was that once you are saved thats all that needs to happen.

also who all thinks judas went to hell for killing himself?
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  #2  
Unread 25th January 2004, 11:30 PM
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We are not to judge others. Even Judas could have been repentant at that last moment.

Therefore, we should pray for all men that they will be saved.

Hell is mentioned in the Bible. Due to free will, Jesus will honor the request of those who desire to be forever separated from Him. Christ our God will not force anyone to go to heaven against his or her own will. Going to heaven can be compared with going to church. If a child doesn't want to go to church, then the service will be horrible for him. We go to Church to worship God. In Heaven, we will be forever worshiping God. So if the idea of worshiping God for all eternity sounds like hell -- it will be hell. This is a sign that we are not saved or are backsliding.

God gave us free will -- the ability to choose between good and evil -- The ability to love Him or to hate Him -- The ability to love and serve Him, or to reject Him. We can change our minds. This is the exercise of free will. This is what Adam and Eve did in the Garden of Eden. They used their free will to eat the forbidden fruit and the rest is history.

Let's take a person who is a new Christian but who is also a recovering alcoholic. He knows that if he drinks alcohol, he cannot stop himself. He visits a friend. Now he knows his enabling friend will probably offer him a drink. (Mistake #1) Then his friend offers him a drink, as expected. Free will lets him decide if he should leave at that point or stay and gradually be persuaded to just have "one for the road." So he stays. (Mistake #2) and then freely decides to have one drink. (Mistake #3) Then he craves one drink after another until he is totally smashed. (He's a gonner now.)

This is the slippery slope folks. This is backsliding. Once you accept a temptation to do what you know is sinful by thought, word, or deed, you have freely chosen evil and will be accountable for it to God. Yes, Christians can fall into sin and reject God. Didn't Hitler, Stalin and Judas reject God? ]

An alcoholic can become sober and sincerely promise God that he will not backslide but then find himself in the midst of an overwhelming temptation. Does this mean that everytime he accepts Jesus and then falls into a sinful habit that he was never saved to begin with? That somehow his sincere intention to do good was not sincere. That sounds so wrong.

A child of God, can fall from Divine Grace. Even still, a child of God can overcome his sinful habits by prayer and fasting. God does answer our prayers, but we must pray with sincerity. Did not Jesus say in the Holy Bible that certain demons (bad habits) could only be cast out by prayer and fasting? This is why we have the Church. If we are weak, then we can ask another Christian to pray with us for strength to overcome temptation. This is what AA is all about - Christian fellowship. It was started by Christians.

So can a Christian backslide and end up in hell? Yes, Judas probably is in hell. Although we don't know for sure. Hitler and Stalin (both Christians at one point in their lives) are probably in hell too. Again, we don't know for sure, but all three rejected Christ.

So if you find that you are backsliding -- go to Church, pray regularly and read the Holy Bible. Remember, God is only a prayer away. He's everywhere and loves you -- that is why He died and gave us His Holy Church.

You may PM me if you have any further questions.

Sincerely yours in Christ our God,
Elizabeth
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  #3  
Unread 25th January 2004, 11:50 PM
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God can save the backslider, but no Christian would want to reap from a life sown to the wind. A person that calls themselves by God's name but does not live according to the Word is a hypocrite. God speaks of spewing the luke warm out of His mouth, and one who actually is in a backslidden condition would surely not be called on fire for God.....in my opinion, but be in danger of being spewed out.
Do a word study on hypocrites, and also what it means to take God's name in vain and even the Lord's supper in vain. A persons health can even be affected by taking the Lord's supper in vain according to scripture.

Proverbs 30:8 Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
9 Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the LORD? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.

God knew Judas before he was born and that he would be a devil.

John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
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Last edited by raphe; 25th January 2004 at 11:59 PM.
  #4  
Unread 26th January 2004, 12:22 AM
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my thought is lets say someone gets saved and lives saved..but then degenerates into a sinful lifestyle..say homosexuality. thats a sinful LIFESTYLE that he knew would be against gods will..thats the backslider im speaking about..everyone falls short every day ..but constantly persueing the lord is what we should be doing ...where as someone thats raining men should go and get recommited..
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  #5  
Unread 26th January 2004, 12:27 AM
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The reality is that there is nothing in the Bible that proves that backsliding or even suicide will send you to hell, regardless of if you are saved or not. Once a person is saved, he or she is ALWAYS saved. There are several verses that show this:

We are held in God's hand and NOTHING can pluck us out - John 10:27-29
Nothing can separate us from God's love which is in Christ - Romans 8:29-39
We are God's children upon salvation; just as your child will ALWAYS be your child, and your father will ALWAYS be your father, so it is with the saved individual - John 1:12
Eternal life is eternal (notice the use of "Have" & "Hath"; this word in the Greek is a present active indicative verb, meaning that the person is CONTINUALLY having; also notice that there is no 'May' before 'have') - John 3:16,17; I John 5:10-13
Christ is the foundation of our salvation - I Corinthians 3:11-15 "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: BUT HE HIMSELF SHALL BE SAVED; yet so as by fire."


The only prerequisite to this is that this person is truly saved. That is they have at one point in their life:
1. Acknowledged that they are a sinner: Romans 3:23
2. The price for sin is death: Romans 6:23
3. Realize that there is nothing they can do to save themselves: Titus 3:5
4. God sent His son, Jesus Christ to save us: Romans 5:8; Luke 19:10; John 3:17
5. Believe on His son and accept Him as your personal savior: Acts 4:12; John 1:12

In regards to the passages you have outlined:
Heb. 6:4-6
The passage is actually one sentence. If you take those verses and read it as one sentence, you will see that it says something to the effect that it is impossible for those who are are saved (once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift...) that if they sin, to be saved ONCE AGAIN (to renew them again unto repentance), because it would mean that Christ's death was not sufficient the first time to pay for whatever sin was committed and therefore would be an open shame to Christ, who claims to be (and is) almighty.

Heb 10:26-29
This passage speaks about the judgement someone who has committed the sin of apostasy, described in v29, will receive: someone "who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing" In other words, someone who has trampled Christ's name on the ground, considered His atoning blood as powerless. It describes someone who is in a state that they could not possibly be saved because of their heart condition and has willingly and consciously rejected Christ. Thus, it is the sin of unbelief that condemns.

Who all thinks judas went to hell for killing himself?
Judas went to hell not for killing himself but because he was not saved. It is possible that people can go to church all their lives, say all the right things, even get baptized and still not be saved. The same was the case with Christ teaching Judas (and many others) and still they were not saved (Mark 14:49). In Matthew, which accounts Judas' betrayal's aftermath in Chapter 27, the Bible says that Judas "repented himself (v3)," not to God, whom He sinned against. Also notice that in verse 4, the only sin he recognized was the sin of betrayal of 'innocent blood'. Not the sin of rejection of Christ and His deity. Indeed, Christ himself gave him an opportunity to reconsider his actions with the pointed question in Luke 22:48, "But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?"
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Last edited by inHisSteps; 26th January 2004 at 12:42 AM.
  #6  
Unread 26th January 2004, 12:35 AM
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In reference to the backslider degenerating into great sin, the Bible is clear that sin is still sin, be it having impure thoughts (Mat 5:28), stealing (Ex 20:15), being unforgiving, Mat 18:21-22), or homosexuality (Rom 1:24-26)

James 2:10 still calls sin sin, and there are no 'little sins' or 'big sins'
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
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Unread 26th January 2004, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by fields316_2000
my thought is lets say someone gets saved and lives saved..but then degenerates into a sinful lifestyle..say homosexuality. thats a sinful LIFESTYLE that he knew would be against gods will..thats the backslider im speaking about..everyone falls short every day ..but constantly persueing the lord is what we should be doing ...where as someone thats raining men should go and get recommited..
The best advice for backsliding is don't. It ruins a person's confidence in the Lord and makes a person fearful of His return. Several times in scripture God warns that the fearful will be cast out of His presence. As far as once saved always saved goes, only God know who the elect are because of His power to know the beginning to the end of each person's life. We don't have such power and are told to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith or reprobate. If we are reprobate, then we know the consequences if we will accept the clear definition of them in scripture. Nobody wants to suffer the fear of having the master reurn and find His servant doing wickedly.
Now if a person has a particular sin to battle through life, they have to keep trying with an honest effort to overcome by what God has given us to overcome by - that being the blood of the lamb, and our testimony must relect that battle and not just a giving in to the flesh.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
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  #8  
Unread 26th January 2004, 10:24 AM
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When is backsliding, backsliding? Where is the limit. How many sins do you have to commit within what timeframe to be called a backslider? How many times must you neglect to ask forgiveness of your sins for that day to become a backslider?

My point is, if backsliding sends you to hell, then there must be some forumula that God uses to decide. But, does God use forumulas? I don't think so.
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  #9  
Unread 26th January 2004, 12:55 PM
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Backsliding and turning your back on God are two different things. I think we may just be a little harder on our own self, then God is. I believe God knows our heart in all matters, so I will let him do the judging.
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Unread 26th January 2004, 02:30 PM
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I have had the once saved always saved debate with many brothers and sisters. My conclusion is this. We can never know for sure who is and who isn't, I think the baptist's will be very surprized to see who is not in heaven with us and I think the "predestinationist's" will be very surprized who is in heaven with us. My final answer is you are resposible for you and just make sure you are always without a shadow of a doubt, saved.

My personal opinion is that you can give back the gift of God. You can't lose it, but you can give it back. Heb 6.

I even have another opinion, I believe that God will come to every human being at the split moment of death and personally offer them salvation, they can, last chance, take it or leave it.

Lord bless you
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