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  #1  
Old 7th September 2004, 02:18 PM
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Do Lutherans still believe that the Pope is the AntiChrist?

I hope that this question does not cause a problem but, do Lutherans still believe that the Pope is the AntiChrist? Or was it just a particular Pope?

Thanks,
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  #2  
Old 7th September 2004, 04:00 PM
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the answer is LCMS and WELS yes, ELCA no. I'm not sure when the ELCA said this but I believe as a part of the Joint Doctrine on Justification in 1999, the anathemas against each other from the 1500's were lifted.
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Old 7th September 2004, 04:03 PM
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I was right. Since I don't have 15 posts yet I can't post links but the LCMS website confirms that they still believe the Pope is antichrist.
  #4  
Old 7th September 2004, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by IowaLutheran
I was right. Since I don't have 15 posts yet I can't post links but the LCMS website confirms that they still believe the Pope is antichrist.
Let's make sure that we are correctly defining this. I believe that Luther said it was the office of the Papacy that was considered the Anti-Christ.
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Old 7th September 2004, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by LCMS website
The LCMS does not teach, nor has it ever taught, that any individual Pope as a person, is to be identified with the Antichrist.
http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2217
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  #6  
Old 7th September 2004, 04:53 PM
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I've been wanting to ask the question. Why the different synods? And does anyone have links for LCMS, WELS, ECLA synods? Are there other synods?

Thanks.

PS. I finally found a copy of the Book of Concord. Do the different synods have different versions of this? Are there official verses unofficial versions? Thanks.

Last edited by Jason the Evangelist; 7th September 2004 at 05:07 PM.
  #7  
Old 7th September 2004, 04:59 PM
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Scott, I have been taught also that the seat of the papacy is the antichrist...however, when I look at our LCMS brief doctrinal statement..that distinction doesn't seem so clear, although as it is stated it is clear that the implication does not lie with one particular pope. So, I guess by extension, the seat of the papacy seems the correct way of looking at it..

Originally Posted by LCMS brief doctrinal statement
43. As to the Antichrist we teach that the prophecies of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Antichrist, 2 Thess. 2:3-12; 1 John 2:18, have been fulfilled in the Pope of Rome and his dominion. All the features of the Antichrist as drawn in these prophecies, including the most abominable and horrible ones, for example, that the Antichrist "as God sitteth in the temple of God," 2 Thess. 2:4; that he anathematizes the very heart of the Gospel of Christ, that is, the doctrine of the forgiveness of sins by grace alone, for Christ's sake alone, through faith alone, without any merit or worthiness in man (Rom. 3:20-28; Gal. 2:16); that he recognizes only those as members of the Christian Church who bow to his authority; and that, like a deluge, he had inundated the whole Church with his antichristian doctrines till God revealed him through the Reformation -- these very features are the outstanding characteristics of the Papacy. (Cf. Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 515, Paragraphs 39-41; p. 401, Paragraph 45; M. pp. 336, 258.) Hence we subscribe to the statement of our Confessions that the Pope is "the very Antichrist." (Smalcald Articles, Triglot, p. 475, Paragraph 10; M., p. 308.)
Incidently...Wyclif also thought the pope was the antichrist...when the pope took jurisdiction over worldly things and sought wealth and worldly power.

Peace

Rose
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  #8  
Old 7th September 2004, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason the Evangelist
I've been wanting to ask the question. Why the different synods? And does anyone have links for LCMS, WELS, ECLA synods? Are there other synods?

Thanks.

PS. I finally found a copy of the Book of Concord. Do the different synods have different versions of this? Are there official verses unofficial versions? Thanks.
There is a version of the Augsburg Confessions that was later altered to appease someone, somewhere. Sorry, I am short of time and can't look up the history...but that is why you will see some Lutheran churches identifed with the UAC letters for unaltered Augsburg Confessions. It is those unaltered confessions that are in our Book of Concord. To my knowledge there is only one Book of Concord, not variations thereof (although there are different translations...updated over time).

WELS, ELS and LCMS all claim adherence to the same Book of Concord. I don't know if ELCA claims adherence to the whole book or to just the Creeds, the Catechisms and the Augsburg confessions. I hope someone from the ELCA can address this.-----R
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  #9  
Old 7th September 2004, 05:47 PM
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Thanks LR. Im just trying to understand my Lutheran brothers and sisters! I just found both the LCMS and ELCA web sites. And I've got both an LCMS Church and an ELCA church in my home town. Im looking forward to visiting.

Will I encounter any problems visiting either as a Catholic?
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Old 7th September 2004, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason the Evangelist
.

Will I encounter any problems visiting either as a Catholic?
Not at all! You will be surprised at how familiar it will seem to you. (I speak from experience as a former Catholic, born, bred and 8 years Catholic school with the strap marks by Sister Margaret Joseph to prove it! )

If you go to an LCMS congregation you will probably be asked to refrain from partaking in the Lord's Supper--similar to when I attend the Catholic church my brother and his family attend. If you go to an ELCA congregation you will be free to commune at their table.

Peace

Rose
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Thus says the LORD, “Stand by the ways and ask for the ancient paths, where the good way is, and walk in it; and you will find rest for your souls.
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