You seem to want to believe in lies and half truths of the Ruckmanites, instead of the truth. The Codex was not in their trash, but truth is not what you are interested in, that is clear.
You clearly do not know what you are talking about, when it comes to the Holy Monks of St Catherine's, nor are you showing any knowing whatsoever of Orthodoxy! Nor do you seem to be aware of St Athanasius was from according to the KJV Only religionists that cess pit of heresy, Alexandra!!! The very champion of Nicene Orthodoxy comes from Alexandra, the very place the Alexandran text comes from, inside of an Orthodox Monastery no less! True believers will believe no matter what facts are against them, and it is clearly the case here.
Jeff the Finn
An early Gnostic document, discovered in Egypt in 1945, called "Trimorphic Protennoia" says the following:
"Then, moreover, the God who was begotten gave them (the Aeons) a power of life on which they might rely, and he established them. The first Aeon he established over the first: Armedon, Nousanios, Armozel; the second he established over the second Aeon: Phaionios, Ainios, Oroiael; the third over the third Aeon: Mellephaneus, Loios, Daveithai; the fourth over the fourth: Mousanios, Amethes, Eleleth. Now those Aeons were begotten by the God who was begotten - the Christ - and these Aeons received as well as gave glory. They were the first to appear, exalted in their thought, and each Aeon gave myriads of glories within great untraceable lights, and they all together blessed the perfect Son, the God who was begotten."
So, why does the Alexandrain text say "only-begotten God" in John 1:18 while the Textus Receptus says "only-begotten Son"? It's obvious: Gnostic and Arian influences in Alexandria Egypt!
You seem to want to believe in lies and half truths of the Ruckmanites, instead of the truth. The Codex was not in their trash, but truth is not what you are interested in, that is clear.
I got the bit about it being in the trash from an English translation of Tischendorf's own account of what happened which was in a PRO-Alexandrian text publication, a publication bashing the KJV and saying that Sinaiticus is the best and oldest manuscript! Have you ever read Tischendorf's account of what happened? I didn't think so.
Nor do you seem to be aware of St Athanasius was from according to the KJV Only religionists that cess pit of heresy, Alexandra!!!
He was exiled by the Arians. It was during that time that they changed John 1:18 to be a polytheistic Gnostic/Arain perversion and so on. And when he got back that's when all their manuscripts ended up in the trash that we found them in.
Finding Codex Sinaiticus The story of his finding the manuscript, which contained most of the Old Testament and all of the New Testament, has all the interest of a romance. He reached the convent on January 31; but his inquiries appeared to be fruitless. On the 4th February he had resolved to return home without having gained his object. "On that day, when walking with the provisor of the convent, he spoke with much regret of his ill-success. Returning from their promenade, Tischendorf accompanied the monk to his room, and there had displayed to him what his companion called a copy of the Septuagint, which he, the ghostly brother, owned. The MS. was wrapped up in a piece of cloth, and on its being unrolled, to the surprise and delight of the critic the very document presented itself which he had given up all hope of seeing. His object had been to complete the fragmentary Septuagint of 1844, which he had declared to be the most ancient of all Greek codices on vellum that are extant; but he found not only that, but a copy of the Greek New Testament attached, of the same age, and perfectly complete, not wanting a single page or paragraph." This precious fragment, after some negotiations, he obtained possession of, and conveyed it to the Emperor Alexander, who fully appreciated its importance, and caused it to be published as nearly as possible in facsimile, so as to exhibit correctly the ancient handwriting. That does not sound like a trash heap to me! Jeff the Finn
"It was in April, 1844, that I embarked at Leghorn for Egypt. The desire which I felt to discover some precious remains of any manuscripts, more especially Biblical, of a date which would carry us back to the early times of Christianity, was realized beyond my expectations. It was at the foot of Mount Sinai, in the Convent of St. Catherine, that I discovered the pearl of all my researches. In visiting the library of the monastery, in the month of May, 1844, I perceived in the middle of the great hall a large and wide basket full of old parchments; and the librarian, who was a man of information, told me that two heaps of papers like these, mouldered by time, had been already committed to the flames. What was my surprise to find amid this heap of papers a considerable number of sheets of a copy of the Old Testament in Greek, which seemed to me to be one of the most ancient that I had ever seen. The authorities of the convent allowed me to possess myself of a third of these parchments, or about forty-three sheets, all the more readily as they were destined for the fire." (Tischendorf)
Here Tischendorf explains how he found the manuscript in the waste-basket that was containing manuscripts to be burned to heat the room. He is only allowed to 43 sheets.
"...and enjoined on the monks to take religious care of all such remains which might fall in their way."
In other words, he said "I'm not content with these 43 sheets but I want the whole manuscript, so you take it out of the trash and hold on to it and I'll be back with money."
"I resolved, therefore, to return to the East to copy this priceless manuscript. Having set out from Leipzig in January, 1853, I embarked at Trieste for Egypt, and in the month of February I stood for the second time in the Convent of Sinai." (Tischendorf)
"But I felt myself more and more urged to recommence my researches in the East...for the Emperor of Russia, led me, in the autumn of 1856, to submit to the Russian Government a plan of a journey for making systematic researches in the East...People were astonished that a foreigner and a Protestant should presume to ask the support of the Emperor of the Greek and Orthodox Church for a mission to the East...It obtained his approval in the month of September, 1858, and the funds which I asked for were placed at my disposal. Three months subsequently my seventh edition of the New Testament, which had cost me three years of incessant labour, appeared; and in the commencement of January, 1859, I again set sail for the East." (Tischendorf)
***I cannot here refrain from mentioning the peculiar satisfaction I had experienced a little before this. A learned Englishman, one of my friends, had been sent into the East by his Government to discover and purchase old Greek manuscripts, and spared no cost in obtaining them. I had cause to fear, especially for my pearl of the Convent of St. Catherine; but I heard that he had not succeeded in acquiring anything, and had not even gone as far as Sinai--"for," as he said in his official report, "after the visit of such an antiquarian and critic as Dr. Tischendorf, I could not expect any success." I saw by this how well advised I had been to reveal to no one my secret of 1844.*** (Tischendorf)
"...he [monk at St. Catherines] took down from the corner of the room a bulky kind of volume, wrapped up in a red cloth, and laid it before me. I unrolled the cover, and discovered, to my great surprise, not only those very fragments which, fifteen years before, I had taken out of the basket, but also other parts of the Old Testament, the New Testament complete, and, in addition, the Epistle of Barnabas and a part of the Pastor of Hermas." (Tischendorf)
What's he saying here is that the monk from 15 years ago kept the manuscript he found, waiting for the money that had been promised so long ago. What the monk had wrap in the cloth was what he took out of the trash 15 years ago in anticipation of receiving a large sum of money from Tischendorf in the future, as Tischendorf himself explains.
Obviously one of them is corrupt, so if you don't believe that the Textus Receptus is corrupt then by default you believe that the Alexandrain text is corrupt, and vice versa.
But no one even needs to prove that the Alexandrian text is corrupt because it proves itself to be so in that it was not in use from the 4th century to the 1840s. The only times at which it was used were some undeterminable amount of time during the 4th century and the 1840s to present - there's a gap of about 1440 years where it was virtually unkown and unused. The Textus Receptus was in continual use from the 4th century to present (I would dare say from the point at which the last word of Scripture was written to the present but the great proponents of the Alexandrian text, Westcott and Hort, only agree that it goes back to the 4th century so I'll just keep going with their date so that I'll be using a non-partisan date).
Good Day, JohnJones
Well, if that is you historical proof to up hold that the Text is corupt as a fact then so be it. I am sure why you can see that does fail to meet any standards of historical proof for believing this assertion on your part as factual.
Thanks for your thoughts,
Peace to u,
Bill
__________________ What will you do with Jesus, is the wrong question.
Dan 4:35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, "What have you done?"
The question should be what will God do with you???
When you think of the phrase "Majority Text" you may think that it means the majority of all manuscripts right? Well, the majority text of all manuscripts is the Received Text (Textus Receptus) which is attested by 95% of all manuscripts. On the other hand, however, the text that is commonly called the "Majority Text" is simply the majority reading of the Egyptian mss only, that is the majority reading of only 5% of existing manuscripts. Which is more of a majority, the majority readings of a majority of manuscripts (95% of mss.) or the majority reading of a minority of manuscripts (5% of mss.)? The answer is obvious. The Textus Receptus is the majority.
No, the Textus Receptus is not the majority. Who do you get such information from? Samuel Gipp, G.A. Riplinger, or someone else? Perhaps Dr. Ruckman?
Also, do you think "word of God" or "word of the Lord" should be in Acts 19:20? The Textus Receptus and the KJV disagree in that passage.
Also, what do you think of the textual issue in these passages,
2 Kings 8:26 Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. And his mother's name was Athaliah, the daughter of Omri king of Israel.
2 Chronicles 22:2 Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri.
For you to subscribe to a perfect translation would be to mean that God "mest up" in the above passages. God didn't mess up at all.
We truly have God's Word in our hands, His Word has been preserved for us, but that doesn't necessitate a perfect translation.
I'm rather tired of the unscriptural and circular arguments employed by those who believe that the KJV is inspired, in either word or deed. Therefore, for the past week or so I've been working on an article refuting some of the false notions and assertions by G.A. Riplinger. Suffice it to say that it's going to take a while.
As one Christian scholar put it, there are so many holes in the book New Age Bible Versions that fixing them or "plugging" them up is like trying to plug up a chain link fence
1. The Majority Text disagrees with the TR more times than it agrees with it; about 3:1 I believe. Your belief that they are the same is absolutely rediculous.
2. The true Majority Text during the first seven centuries CE are what are called the "Minority Texts" today.
3. You want the full "Our Father" prayer? Look in the Gospel of St. Matthew. WOW! Its right there! Even in the NRSV, RSV, Orthodox Study Bible, NASB, NIV, NJB, NAB, and all the others! Amazing! [/sarcasm] The idea that the NRSV, etc, delete it is a load of lies, false accusations, and is, quite frankly, sinful to say. Same thing goes for the "blood" and this and that, and etc etc etc.
4. Did you know that only a tiny portion of Codex Sinaiticus was found in the trash? The rest was in storage. In fact, even more missing pages were found after the initial discovery in 1971. In addition, the Monks didn't know of the value of the papers, mainly because their importance was of unknown value, nothing more.
5. The monks were of the Eastern Orthodox Church, and accepted all the books therein Sinaiticus as either Scripture or part of Holy Tradition.
6. How the living heck is the Eastern Orthodox Church Arian when the monastery was under the goverance of Tzar Alexander II?! Have you no shame in your absolutely wild and absurd accusations?!
7. You want something Arian? I'll give you one: St. John 1:18 has "No one has ever seen God. It is God the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, who has made Him known." Wait...that isn't in the KJV...its in my NRSV! In fact, the KJV has it the same way the NWT has it! Now which translation is Arian? And lets also remember that the Mormons use the KJV, and they reject the Trinity.
__________________ President of the WACCAV To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. For You are the Lord Most High, of great compassion, long-suffering, and very merciful, and You relent at human suffering. O Lord, according to Your great goodness You have promised repentance and forgiveness to those who have sinned against You, and in the multitude of Your mercies You have appointed repentance for sinners so that they may be saved.
-Prayer of Manasseh verse 7 (NRSV) To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Linear Mode
