Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
Objective: Since the new creationist-only forum has started, one can see the beginnings of Hovind worship emerging there, and since the open forum is periodically bombarded with lists of Hovind claims, this thread can serve as an archive of previously addressed Hovind claims. The forum, as a whole, is often charged with bashing Hovind baselessly rather than pointing out his claims, so this thread can serve as an archive for claims debunked on this forum that can be linked to in discussions where his credibility is questioned or bumped when necessary. And let's face it, YECs are rarely willing to go to the talkorigins.org archive or external sites that serve as similar archives.
So here is everyone's chance to post (or simply repost) their favorite Hovind lie and/or error and have it immortalized on the forum in a thread that serves to demonstrate exactly why we claim over and over again that Hovind's credibility has been decimated.
Ideal Guidelines: Obviously this is not really a new idea, but past threads on the topic of Hovind are often bogged down with side discussions and just generalized (though justified) attacks on Hovind as a person. Ideally, this thread should contain claims, refutations, commentary, and any associated sources and side discussions should be minimized.
Ideally, each submission should, for everyone's benefit, include:
(1) Hovind's original claim either summarized or as a quotation
(2) Your refutation of his original claim with any supporting sources you might want to include
(3) Any optional commentary on Hovind's motives regarding the original claim (e.g., demonstration of deliberate dishonesty or unwillingness to make corrections)
(4) No attacks on Hovind himself with the exceptions of things like how he misrepresents his credentials to try to gain credibility, for example.
Alright, I'll go first and post one of my favorites:
Hovind has claimed in debates and seminars that geologists shrunk the African continent by 40% to construct paleogeographic maps of pangea and that this was a deliberate hoax to substantiate modern geology.
Originally Posted by Kent Hovind
Hovind: In order to make Africa and South America fit for the Pangea theory they put in the textbooks, they shrank Africa 35 to 40 percent. The Pangea theory is just pure boloney.
Obviously his claim is false. No scaling or skewing of the continent is required for it to fit neatly into the North and South American continents. An easy way to see this is to look at an animation of the fragmentation of pangea and the movement of the continents to their present locations based upon paleomagnetic data:
It should also be noted that the apparent fit of the continents is not even close to being the only source of evidence for the existence of pangea or plate tectonics in general. In fact, it was essentially the earliest hypothesis that led to the discovery of numerous independent lines of evidence to support the idea.
Implications:
1. Hovind has never looked at a paleogeographic map or compared it to a map of the planet's surface at present, but he makes the claim anyway from a position of total ignorance while pretending like he did actually perform such a comparison
2. Hovind has looked at paleogeographic maps and present day maps of earth's surface, but he makes the claim anyway knowing full well that it's false.
Either way, he is promoting a deliberate falsehood because the evidence does not fit young earth creationism. Additionally, he has been asked to correct this error by multiple people on multiple occasions and has not corrected himself.
A series of quotes from Hovind (which can be found at the site linked on the bottom). You be the judge of whether the man is trustworthy:
I may not always be right, but if I am saying it in my seminar then I don't know it to be false.
A simple trick you can do. Suppose someone is getting married and going off on their honeymoon, you can pull out the coil wire [of the car engine]. Stick a door bell wire under there, pull it back, bring the door bell wire through the fire wall, and weave it through the fabric of the seat. They get in there all excited going on their honeymoon, you know, hit the key. Bam!! Ohh, ahh. Ha, ha, ha. I can give you lots more ideas but we’ll stop there.
Oklahoma City bombing was done on purpose. Did you know the Federal Government blew up their own building to blame it on the militias and to get rid of some people that weren't cooperating with the system?
What do HIV, West Nile Fever, Gulf war syndrome, chronic fatigue syndrome, multiple sclerosis, Wegener's disease, Parkinson's disease, Crohn's colitis, Type I diabetes, and collagen-vascular diseases such as rheumatoid arthritis and Alzheimer's have in common? These plagues were all developed as a joint effort by the money masters and governments of the world under the guise of biowarfare research. The bad guys who would like to have a one world government have learned a simple technique - you create a crisis and then the people will call for you to come solve the crisis. That’s why the Oklahoma City Bombing took place. They wanted to get the anti-terrorist bill passed through Congress. […..] Whenever there is a crisis like the Twin Towers getting blown up, you had just better look behind the scenes to see what is really happening. Why is this going on? There’s a reason for it, okay, it’s all part of a plan. […..] [American] Civil War was intentionally done, World War Two, the Great Depression, all these things are planned ahead of time and they are orchestrated to […..] cause a particular response amongst the people.
My take on what happened with the moon landing was [......] they suspect [sic] that on impact that the cameras would be damaged because back in 1969 cameras weren't, you know, like they are today, as good. So they had a studio set up at CBS to mimic the moon landing. And sure enough the cameras broke and so they flipped, you know, the CBS studio on. And what you saw of the footage of the '69 moon landing was actually at CBS studio.
Stanley Deyo, a Christian, is a genius who wrote the book [The Cosmic Conspiracy]. Way over my head. Deyo says that there are two kinds of UFOs. First, there are US government owned and operated UFOs. That really got my attention. The US government has UFOs? He said that the second kind is the satanically owned and operated UFOs. He says that Satan has always used that mode of transportation to get around because the devil [sic] can only be at one place at one time, whereas God is all places at all times. That may be far fetched, so please do not accuse me of saying this is true. I do not know if it is true, but it is an interesting theory.
The globalist, the Council of the Committee of Three Hundred, has as one of their goals to reduce the world population from six billion to one-half billion people. There are too many people here that cannot be controlled; so get rid of them. That's why AIDS was purposefully developed in a Maryland laboratory to wipe out population.
On August 6, a grand jury hears former White House intern Monica Lewinsky, reported to testify that she and President carried on a sexual affair. On August 7 two U.S. Embassies in Africa are bombed, steering the news headlines away from the Lewinsky affair. The attacks are later blamed on Osama bin Laden. Why would bin Laden time these attacks to divert attention away from the Clinton affair? This has never been explained.
[All] Dinosaurs have four perfectly good [quadruped] legs and birds have two legs and two wings. So if he’s going to turn into a bird his front legs are going to have to turn into wings [….] Somewhere along the line they’re going to be half leg and half wing. Which means now he can’t walk anymore and can’t fly yet.
Hey, did you know the word 'universe' comes from two Latin words? Uni means single and verse means a spoken sentence.
Those who have been in the [Noah’s] Ark, and many have been in the last couple hundred years ….
Einstein's theory was that the speed of light is a constant. Time is the variable. Maybe he was wrong. Maybe time is the constant and light is the variable.
I believe the Great Pyramid was built to be the Bible in stone. The Egyptians did not build it.
Therefore, there may not be any other stars in the solar system that have planets around them. Obviously, several different colors of people exist on the earth that have distinctive characteristics, but they are the same race. [.....] One theory says that Adam and Eve were medium-brown, possibly because they were made from the earth.
A good idea, the hard part will be to get the people who need to read this thread to read it.
Ok I will add to the list, there are so many.
Sirius the star 1) "Among other factors to consider is that all the ancient astronomers from 2000 years ago recorded that Sirius was a red star—today it is a white dwarf star. Since today’s textbooks in astronomy state that one hundred thousand years are required for a star to "evolve" from a red giant to a white dwarf, obviously this view needs to be restudied." http://www.drdino.com/QandA/index.js...ofYearsOld.jsp
2) There are plenty in his Universe is not billions, article. However, this one struck me as one of the most dishonest or most ignorant.
In 1841 it was discovered that Sirius was a binary star (two stars that orbit around a point between them). The large red star, also known as Sirius A is the visible star and what ancient astronomers saw. In 1915 it was discovered that the other star in the binary star system was a white dwarf. The star ancient astronomers recorded is still there and has not changed, a trip to your backyard can confirm this.
3) Any sort of research what so ever, including a trip to your backyard would have shown that Sirius has not changed into a white dwarf. So either Hovind is lying or he doesn't bother to research his claims.
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Wei wu wei
Green faeries
Last edited by Arikay; 30th August 2004 at 05:54 PM.
A good idea, the hard part will be to get the people who need to read this thread to read it.
Ok I will add to the list, there are so many.
Sirius the star 1) "Among other factors to consider is that all the ancient astronomers from 2000 years ago recorded that Sirius was a red star—today it is a white dwarf star. Since today’s textbooks in astronomy state that one hundred thousand years are required for a star to "evolve" from a red giant to a white dwarf, obviously this view needs to be restudied." http://www.drdino.com/QandA/index.js...ofYearsOld.jsp
2) There are plenty in his Universe is not billions, article. However, this one struck me as one of the most dishonest or most ignorant.
In 1841 it was discovered the Sirius was a binary star (two stars that orbit around a point between them). The large red star, also known as Sirius A is the visible star and what ancient astronomers saw. In 1915 it was discovered that the other star in the binary star system was a white dwarf. The star astronomers recorded is still there and has not changed, a trip to your backyard to confirm this.
3) Any sort of research what so ever, including a trip to your backyard would have shown that Sirius has not changed into a white dwarf. So either Hovind is lying or he doesn't bother to research his claims.
In one of his tapes arguing for YEC, I believe that he made the claim (basically) that because of the rates of sedimentation of the Mississippi River and the rate of erosion of Niagara Falls, that it was impossible that the world was over 6 thousand years old.
He basically used some bad math - basically, Niagara is x feet away from where it started, it eroded at y rate, so x feet / y rate approximately equals 6,000 years. Ta-da. A similar process whereby he compared the amount of mud flowing into the Gulf of Mexico or something like that gave him a similar result.
Problem is, that there's no natural law that states Niagara Falls and the Mississippi River had to have existed at those same spots for the last 4.6 billion years as Hovind is trying to say.
I'm guessing willing deception honestly; a basic understanding of "things can change" would honestly refute these two arguments totally.
Last edited by Ampoliros; 30th August 2004 at 07:12 PM.
Reason: Doh, i cant spell
Parkinson's disease... These plagues were all developed as a joint effort by the money masters and governments of the world under the guise of biowarfare research
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