God's War Campaign

LilZoIsaGnome · #1 26th December 2003, 03:27 AM

I do not usually post on forums such as these. I usually just read what others have to say; however, I have had this burning question I have not been able to resolve in my mind no matter how hard I have looked.

First off, I find it a given that God is inherently omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and immutable. Knowing this I have often questioned to myself as to why, oh why, our omnibenevolent God allows the destruction he does in the Old Testament with the nation of Israel's conquest of Canaan. True, Israel is God's chosen nation and has been given the Promised Land and true, the earth and its land is God's to give to whom he pleases, but I can not help but wonder about all the people God wipes out and the seeming genocide he allows. Why does our omnibenevolent God allow this? The most common explanation I receive is because it is his wrath against the pagan nations of Canaan. If this is the case though, does that not seemingly equivocate our God with the likes of Allah? The Muslims claim they have a command by their god to wage a holy jihad against the infidels. We as Christians scoff at this notion and condemn it when, right in the Old Testament, God allows Israel to do what seems to be the exact same thing.

In asking this I am not looking for justification for God's actions, never can I ask that. No, what I desire is an explanation of these actions thus stated. After thinking about this as much as I have I am quite sure the answer does not lie within any facts that can be presented but within the point of view from which they must be looked at. So if someone could kindly correct my point of view I would be much obliged.

............. I like this smiley :troll: .....

Dad Ernie · #2 26th December 2003, 11:47 AM

Greetings LilzolsaGnome,

What would you think of a nation that had beautiful women and part of the "temple worship" consisted of prostitution, child sacrifice, Baal worship and every kind of evil imagined? Anything and everything that appealed to the "flesh" and very alluring. This is what the Hebrews/Israelites faced from among the nations. They also were warned about not taking for themselves wives from the other nations because of their corrupting influence.

God chose a piece of ground called the "promise land" for the Hebrews, but it had to first be taken and cleansed of all evil because they were to be a separated and holy nation. But they allowed "some" to remain and thereby became corrupted. A little yeast infects the whole loaf. This is a principle you see now and again in the Bible. This is why those nations had to be destroyed. We have to understand that Satan also sows seed in the field and we cannot be saddened or upset to see their destruction. God is not behind their evilness.

Does that help?

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

LilZoIsaGnome · #3 26th December 2003, 09:48 PM

Hey, many thanks for the reply, although I have heard this many times before. This line of thought leads me to another question I posed earlier.

What would you think of a nation that had beautiful women and part of the "temple worship" consisted of prostitution, child sacrifice, Baal worship and every kind of evil imagined? Anything and everything that appealed to the "flesh" and very alluring. This is what the Hebrews/Israelites faced from among the nations.

America is starting to look an aweful lot like this description given. Then come the Muslims claiming divine right to destroy the American menace. We, from our point of view, have to condemn this as evil and the Muslims have to call it holy. This seems like the same exact situation in the Old Testament only the perspectives are reversed. So would not, by explaining it as you do, be equivocating out actions with that of the Muslims?

Rafael · #4 27th December 2003, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by LilZoIsaGnome

I do not usually post on forums such as these. I usually just read what others have to say; however, I have had this burning question I have not been able to resolve in my mind no matter how hard I have looked.

First off, I find it a given that God is inherently omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent, and immutable. Knowing this I have often questioned to myself as to why, oh why, our omnibenevolent God allows the destruction he does in the Old Testament with the nation of Israel's conquest of Canaan. True, Israel is God's chosen nation and has been given the Promised Land and true, the earth and its land is God's to give to whom he pleases, but I can not help but wonder about all the people God wipes out and the seeming genocide he allows. Why does our omnibenevolent God allow this? The most common explanation I receive is because it is his wrath against the pagan nations of Canaan. If this is the case though, does that not seemingly equivocate our God with the likes of Allah? The Muslims claim they have a command by their god to wage a holy jihad against the infidels. We as Christians scoff at this notion and condemn it when, right in the Old Testament, God allows Israel to do what seems to be the exact same thing.

In asking this I am not looking for justification for God's actions, never can I ask that. No, what I desire is an explanation of these actions thus stated. After thinking about this as much as I have I am quite sure the answer does not lie within any facts that can be presented but within the point of view from which they must be looked at. So if someone could kindly correct my point of view I would be much obliged.

............. I like this smiley :troll: .....

If you believe in omniscience, then meditate on what that kind of power means, for God knows people before they are born and to what end they are bound. He sees all time of this world at the same moment, from beginning to end. With this power He knows what evil does ahead of time and then uses it to bring about good for those that love God and are the called according to His purpose, just as Romans 8:28 says. It is hard for us to imagine the multi-dimensional power God has over time and eternity, since we have no such power or experience. However, the Bible does tell us these things for us to meditate upon.

Psalms 22:10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother’s belly.

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

SolomonVII · #5 30th December 2003, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by LilZoIsaGnome

America is starting to look an aweful lot like this description given. Then come the Muslims claiming divine right to destroy the American menace. We, from our point of view, have to condemn this as evil and the Muslims have to call it holy. This seems like the same exact situation in the Old Testament only the perspectives are reversed. So would not, by explaining it as you do, be equivocating out actions with that of the Muslims?

The difference between the Hebrews in Canaan and the genocidal tactics of jihadists and suicide bombers is about 2500 years of history and continuing revelations from God. Rational people no longer fight wars in the pretense that their victories are somehow glorifying God. Even if war is still necessary, the archaic practices of war of primitive peoples such as the semi-barbaric Hebrew nation need not be the example we use to defend ourselves in the twenty-first century. Nor should our response to agression be inertia based on post-modern relativism and liberal guilt. If we are to exert ourselves upon the world as Christians, and democrats and defenders of liberty, we must sometimes react savagely against people that hate such ideals.

Just as the life of Christ demonstrates that it is God's way to enter into relationships with the most despised in society, Yaweh began His interactions with the primitive Hebrew tribes by presenting Himself in a form that was most understandable to them. The warrior-god who at the same time demanded a high moral and ethical standard by followed by the people that he chose to be the light unto nations over the centuries transformed the hearts of his people so that they may more fully reveal the glory of God to the world.

The spiritual history of the Bible invites us to break out of the most unproductive modes of the past and into modes of behavior that will hopefully create a world that truly glorifies its creator. A return to a medieval semi-barbarism of sharia law as promoted by the jihadists glorifies no one. While ot os undoubtedly the role of Christians, along with Jew and Moslems and other people of good will to provide a meaningfull alternative to the perverse aimlessness and godlessness that often plagues Western societies, this in no way negates our responsibility to vigorously defend ourselves and our hard-won liberties. One of the lessons afforded to us by the Biblical war campaigns is that it is our God-given right to exert ourselves upon the world in order to promote a better way of existence.