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  #51  
Unread 3rd June 2014, 04:19 PM
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Calling me ignorant is flaming. Keep in mind that I would NEVER call you ignorant or imply that you're so ignorant and foolish that you're invincibly ignorant...that would NEVER happen in a disagreement with me, Columba. It's unfortunate that you needed to resort to that when we could just continue the discussion and not make things personal. It's especially odd for an Orthodox Christian to say such a thing to another Orthodox. I would never do that....period.

Originally Posted by Columba7 View Post
I don't know what flaming is, but the moderators said I was. I will remember that in the future that you can say "this argument displays invincible ignorance" but you can't say "this author displays invincible ignorance."
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To me, the most important missionary witness that we have is the Divine Liturgy..This is the life-giving source from which everything else proceeds. And therefore, to those who show an interest in Orthodoxy, I say, “Come and see. Come to the liturgy.” We start from prayer, not from an abstract ideology, not from moral rules, but from a living link with Christ expressed through prayer.”

-Met. Kallistos Ware
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  #52  
Unread 3rd June 2014, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by gurneyhalleck1 View Post
Calling me ignorant is flaming. Keep in mind that I would NEVER call you ignorant or imply that you're so ignorant and foolish that you're invincibly ignorant...that would NEVER happen in a disagreement with me, Columba. It's unfortunate that you needed to resort to that when we could just continue the discussion and not make things personal. It's especially odd for an Orthodox Christian to say such a thing to another Orthodox. I would never do that....period.
Feel free to call me whatever you want. I would find it no more offensive than some of the non-flaming things people say in this forum.

As for my part, forgive me. I will make sure to only criticize the arguments of individuals in the future.

Continuing the discussion, my other criticisms still stand. I think you are being unfair to Pope Francis. I don't think everything you have said is wrong, but I especially take issue with your claim that he endorses the LGBT community. Many of our own clergy and elders speak in an irenic matter regarding the LGBT community even though they see homosexuality as sinful. It might be better to say he hasn't spoken out against homosexuality as strongly as you would like?
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  #53  
Unread 3rd June 2014, 06:07 PM
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I won't call you names, and the fact that you're ok with that gives me pause. We shouldn't ever want to receive or give insults. I won't be doing that.

In my opinion, the Pope is very sympathetic to the gay cause. If you're against something, you make it very clear. When he got on that "who am I to judge" line of speech, the gay community quickly came out with their angle that he endorses their agenda. He said nothing to the contrary. He was endorsed again, nothing. There were Yahoo and MSN stories right and left labeling him the pro-gay pope and he just kept silent. I thought that was insane. So, yes, I will agree with you that he hasn't made an official ex cathedra pronouncement that the Catholic Church is not officially into gaydom, but you must admit that a challenge that goes without response and being addressed gives the air of acceptance. If you also throw in his pathetic ambiguity regarding homosexual civil unions in his home country, he has a history of pandering to the LGBT agenda.

The Catholic Church, like our Church, needs clarity. This is a dark time for Christendom in the world. You either proclaim loudly the moral imperatives that we Christians must live by, or you stay quiet and let the bullies of the LGBT army continue to make inroads. And make no mistake, they are gaining ground not only on seculars, but also on Christians! There are plenty of Catholics who are ok with the LGBT rubrics of morality now. When a Pope throws out ambiguity and allows gays to put him on a magazine as their champion, that speaks volumes.

Now here I am a mere 39-year-old sixth grade teacher. I'm no patriarch, no theological master, no Pope, but here's what I would've said.

"I want to make it clear as Pope that my statements about being judgmental toward homosexuals is not an endorsement of the lifestyle or a condoning of it in any way. My aim was to make clear the fact that we must not single out people with same-sex attraction as targets nor should we cheapen their dignity as human beings. While I fervently teach as Pope that active homosexual intercourse and relationships are sinful, I know that this is a legitimate struggle that many of our brothers and sisters undergo in this fallen world that we live in. We must support the dignity of our brothers and sisters struggling with this sin, but we must also keep in mind our own sins that include lust, divorce, greed, avarice, gluttony, refusal to forgive, warmongering, murder, adultery, and so much more. Let us not single these folks out, but rather encourage them to approach the Divine Physician, Jesus Christ. We must maintain our love and prayers for people struggling with same-sex attraction.

But I want to make it clear that I am not a champion of the homosexual lobby, nor do I claim the titles that many gay magazines have attributed to my words putting my picture on their issues. I am not endorsing nor will I endorse same-sex marriage or same-sex attraction as a healthy state of life. God bless you all."

Now if I can be lucid enough to know how to respond, and I'm a nobody, why can't the supposed descendent of St. Peter step up?

Originally Posted by Columba7 View Post
Feel free to call me whatever you want. I would find it no more offensive than some of the non-flaming things people say in this forum.

As for my part, forgive me. I will make sure to only criticize the arguments of individuals in the future.

Continuing the discussion, my other criticisms still stand. I think you are being unfair to Pope Francis. I don't think everything you have said is wrong, but I especially take issue with your claim that he endorses the LGBT community. Many of our own clergy and elders speak in an irenic matter regarding the LGBT community even though they see homosexuality as sinful. It might be better to say he hasn't spoken out against homosexuality as strongly as you would like?
__________________
To me, the most important missionary witness that we have is the Divine Liturgy..This is the life-giving source from which everything else proceeds. And therefore, to those who show an interest in Orthodoxy, I say, “Come and see. Come to the liturgy.” We start from prayer, not from an abstract ideology, not from moral rules, but from a living link with Christ expressed through prayer.”

-Met. Kallistos Ware
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  #54  
Unread 3rd June 2014, 09:14 PM
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Vatican: no formal confirmation of plan for 2025 ecumenical gathering in Nicea



The Vatican has declined to confirm that Pope Francis and Orthodox Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople have agreed to hold an ecumenical meeting at Nicea in 2025.


In an interview last week with the AsiaNews service, the Ecumenical Patriarch revealed the plans for a gathering at the Turkish city that hosted “the first truly ecumenical synod, where the Creed was first promulgated.” The meeting would mark the 1700th anniversary of the Council of Nicea.


However, Father Thomas Rosica, a spokesman for the Vatican press office, cautioned: “No formal announcement of or convocation of this event has come from the Vatican.” While he did not contradict the statement by Patriarch Bartholomew, he added that it is “very early to jump to conclusions.”

In a related development, however, the Vatican Insider disclosed that Patriarch Bartholomew would join the Pope and his guests, Israel’s President Shimon Peres and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in a June 8 meeting at the Vatican to pray for peace. Neither the Vatican nor the Patriarchate of Constantinople has confirmed that report.
Vatican: Too early to confirm 2025 Orthodox-Catholic summit (RNS)

Prayer for Peace on June 8th: Bartholomew will be there too (Vatican Insider)

Pope, Orthodox Patriarch look to new meeting at Nicea (CWN, 5/30)
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When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency is not the problem … they’re our brothers.
-Pope Francis
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