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Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed.

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  #161  
Unread 11th April 2014, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Interplanner View Post
slow down there brother Jip.

The 'Deliverer' who came to Zion in Rom 11's quote of Isaiah is historic. Paul was referring to the Gospel events. That's too bad if you think Paul was demeaning the promises at all, but Acts 13's sermon (the one official, apostolic sample sermon about the times and meaning of Israel) makes it quite clear: the resurrection is the deliverance of all mankind, Jew or Gentile. Nothing was meant to be about the land per se, and it rather fades from attention as the NT goes on. I'm sure they did not want to see the catastrophe of zealot Judaism happen, but in the same sense we did not want to see the crucifixion happen either.
Did ya get this Jip.. just what your itching (or perhaps lustful) ears would like to hear..

It's all in the past..

Go back to sleep..

And remain wise in your own conceits..
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  #162  
Unread 12th April 2014, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Old Timer View Post
I know.. some would even say that the resurrection is past already.. that Christ came in 70AD.. that the destruction of Jerusalem was the time of the end.. Not their deliverance..
It's amazing how lust can rare its ugly head..

This (rom 11) was explained in detail in several posts in other threads which you were a part of and which you couldn't refute, thus agreed with.

Rom 11:26,27 is taken from IS 59. In that chapter in vs 5, it mentions "that which is crushed"breaking out into a viper
"That which is crushed refers to the accusative and condemnation of the garden law and seperation from completeness in God, the creator of all things, being CRUSHED. This is a reference to the removal of sin through Gods new law of justification by faith (john 6:28,29) The people who recieved that law and believed Jesus's authority as Gods good news would be hounded and preyed upon by those loyać to the law of moses and still enslaved to that law. Thats what the law is, a ministry of death, inadequacy and feeling of condemnation which expresses itself in contept against those who became free from it.

People wjo receive this law, his truths, and the authority of his love are adopted into gellowship with God in their humanity in Adam or "jacob" Jesus is added to that humanity in the same way he was added to jacob when he was hiven a name meaning "son of God"

Thus, the ungodliness that was removed was/is the oppression of conditiinal, stipulative , racist (and militant) mosaic covt. The people represented by "jacob" are those who left any hope in their racial favor, the law or the nation (sin) and cleft to their justification in their humanity by grace through faith.

This was still future at the time of Pauls writings, but in the near future as affirmed by the surrounding context and the fulfilled historical events. The deliverer of the believers of the new covt who would follow the way of christ, the lamb (the incorruptable seed as you put it) came to zion and removed the persecution (not once, but twice in 133-135 AD) from people justified in their humanity like jacob.

We expćained in a previous thread how and why "all Israel" refers to those who received mercy through Gods pre-elective favor of the new law administered by christ of grace through faith, even those of the nations as Paul says in 9:22 I believe it is.


The deliverer came to zion through the roman armies as had been prophecied in deut 32:42 and as had been premonitioned by his "appearing" and presence in the cloud formations of roman soldiers in the fall of 66 I believe it was.

Thanks for the exposure of this topic. The time context of his coming to remove that which is considered ungodly by god (including killing and persecuting those who believe in his reality as creator of life and Gen 3:15 fulfilling incarnation) has to be when the serpent and garden law is crushed (Is 59:5) because it is the reaćity of his incarnation and the law of justification in that reality wish cancels and destrys the garden law and any/all "sin" (missing the goal) imputed by that law.

This deliverence was foreknown to be needed and was promised to come at the time when "sin" is/was removed and righteousness adjucated to those who DID believe in God; Jesus as his incarnation, and his new law of faith.


Here is a wordpress article of mine for more info on rom 11.
http://fulfilledprophecystudies.word...understanding/







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Last edited by Notrash; 12th April 2014 at 01:19 AM.
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  #163  
Unread 12th April 2014, 02:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Notrash View Post
This (rom 11) was explained in detail in several posts in other threads which you were a part of and which you couldn't refute, thus agreed with.
You mean things like this...

The deliverer came to zion through the roman armies as had been prophecied in deut 32:42 and as had been premonitioned by his "appearing" and presence in the cloud formations of roman soldiers in the fall of 66 I believe it was.
You heard it right here in a CF folks.. The Lord Jesus Christ came in 66AD in the formation of clouds and destroyed the city of Jerusalem..

What should we do?

Welcome nonsense such as this.. which is nothing more than a candy coated sheer hatred for Israel and all scriptural prophecy relative to that nation being delivered in the time of the end..

Some simply can't speak of anything but the destruction of Jerusalem.. and no matter how it's sugar coated.. I believe it's the simple hatred for Israel that is certainly shared by the rulers of this present evil world.
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  #164  
Unread 12th April 2014, 02:44 AM
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Who do ya think might be behind the complete 180 degree twisting around of the word of God to make it say the exact opposite of what it does say?

Who might want to turn the truth of Israel's deliverance in the time of the end into the lie that their destruction was the time of the end?

Any thoughts..

Take a wild guess...
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  #165  
Unread 12th April 2014, 02:48 PM
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Thanks for agreeing with the support behind the statements od the post through childish criticism and ridicule, rather than correction of what was prophesied in the OT.

No, I was referring to several threads last month where this very issue of who "all Israel" in rom 9 was referring to and why. Remember how Isaac is a foretype of Christ and jacob/Israel a foretype of beilievers of Creator,living God/ Jesus (and his incarnation) of any peoples including what was then considered the nations or gentules.. Paul includes the recieving gentiles in "all Israel" in vs 24. Remember how Paul clarifies that "all Israel" is not referring to physical descendants of Israel (or Abraham) but to the people who believed in the promise (now fulfilled in Christ) which was foretyped through the faith/experiences of the 3 patriarchs and especially in the election of the second son of Abraham through the miraculous birth of Isaac through Sara as a foretype of the miraculous birth through Mary. (Rom 9:9-12)

Furthermore, all the patriarchs were representive of and experienced the law of justification by faith (in the seed of God/female gender). And they were examples and foretypes of Gods pre-election of the second way of grace through this faith (the second son) over and being served by (clarified through and anti-typed by) the way of the law of moses and other similar babyloninan style beliefs/practices. (Rom 9:12; Gal 6:21-31.)

In Rom 11:26, It's easy to read this as if, "And so" meant "and afterwards". It doesn't mean that!!! The greek word is "houtos". It means "in this manner". It refers to the manner and time of "salvation" being described in Is 59 which Paul refers to in the phrase 'as it is written'.

It's easy to read "all Israel" as if it intended to mean ALL -Israel, and referring to ALL of a genetic, national or religios entity and not be aware that "ALL Israel" was a combined term used by rabbis at that time. It's easy to forget the context of who Paul has defined as "all Israel" in chapter 9 as referring to the believers in Jesus.

With these mistakes or oversights, and without investigating the contextual meaning of the "saving" from Is 59, it's easy to think that this is talking of a future time of all genetic or national or 'religious' Israels coming to faith in Christ.

But that's NOT what these verses nor the writer is reminding his first century jew/gentile believers about. For a few points, the purpose of the genetics ceased with Christ (Shiloh; gen 49 1,10) the religion and nation of the covenant of the book of deut ceased with the "new" covt fulfilled by the new prophet from 30-70 AD.

So, through all these points, that's not what Paul is writing to his first century believers who were being hunted by (were, with Christ, the enemies of) the jews.

He is comforting them in their persecutions (rom 8:26) that even those persecuters who had originally disbelieved were not (yet) cast off (just like Paul gives himself as an example in 11:1,2) But some individuals (part of national, genetic , religious Israel of this generation) had been prophesied to be made jealous (rom 10:19, deut 32:21) by the fullness, peace and faith in God and confidence in Jesus (and the love they would have for the humanity of their persecutors, Rom 12:14,17-21) of those who they had considered to be not the people of God.

Vs 26 then begins a summary paragraph of chs 9-11. And (indicates a connective break) this is how "all Israel" (meaning the percecuted (rom 8:26) receivers/believers/followers; the incorruptable seed of Jesus) will be saved from their enemies (as describe in Is 59). The deliverer will come to zion and remove the ungogly zealots (rom 10:2-4) of the law, through their enemies (deut 32:42) , like a flood had taken them away, (dan 9:26, is 59:19 etc.

Several times in the ot such as Is 65 the gentiles are to rejoice with his people the christ's ones even though its difficult for the people who fled jerusalem to rejoice during the time (Is 61:2,3)

The rest can be gleaned from previous posts and the wordpress blog. Thanks again for the exposure on this topic.

Aren't you glad that stoning is against the law?? It sounds as though you'd like to stone me. What's in your heart?



.


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Last edited by Notrash; 12th April 2014 at 10:33 PM.
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  #166  
Unread 12th April 2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Notrash View Post
Thanks for agreeing with the support behind the statements od the post through childish criticism and ridicule, rather than correction of what was prophesied in the OT.
Your sheer hatred for Israel is consistently exemplified in your lust for the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70..

And you can sugar coat it all day long.. It's the simple fact of the matter.

It's a joke you're even allowed here in a CF.

And I understand this doesn't stop the nonsense.. although every post of yours makes it perfectly clear why you're here..


Last edited by Old Timer; 12th April 2014 at 03:05 PM.
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  #167  
Unread 12th April 2014, 03:42 PM
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Thanks again for the confirmation and agreement by failure to refute the exegesis. Your doing a good job helping expose the study and meaning of Rom 9-11. Little more needs to be said. Yojr argument is against Paul and God, not me.

70 AD was a historical fact, and sadly neccesary for the maker of life ti show his election and protection of the new covt and the new law of justification by faith & freedom in Christ to all peoples, races, tongues over the former temporary purposes of the genetic, religious, ritualistic way of the mosaic law.

As mentiioned there are people who are planted in forums sych as these to fan the flames of war through continuously supporting the dispensational, futurist or 'end times mentality of continued prophecied wars and murders, regardless of weather or not their claims and interpretations are openly disproved for one agenda or another.

People who continue in their misindoctrinations actually do a great discervice ti the people calling themseves "Israel", God, the world and society by continuing a genetic or national segregation long after that segregation was disolved by God through the ordinances of the "new covt".

We are however thankfull that their histories have been kept alive as well as some of their perspectives which help clarify, and reprove some of the false Ireneousian (and even Calvin) and futurist, literal dispensational, "end time" doctrines.

Please research the scripture references in the previos posts to any, all following along.

Have a good weekend.
.
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Last edited by Notrash; 12th April 2014 at 04:08 PM.
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  #168  
Unread 12th April 2014, 03:55 PM
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And everyone knows why you're here notrash..

We know who hates Israel.. We know who would have it no other way than to have them wiped off the face of the earth..

Israel's deliverance in the time of the end is simple biblical truth for anyone with eyes to see.. and unfortunately that excludes you and those who can't see past 70AD.. and who willingly ignore the truth while pretending to preach it.

But then again it's obvious after a while what motivates men..

So it's no surprise that liars like yourself come into a CF to deceive and be deceived.. it's to be expected.. and you end up affirming the truth which you're trying to destroy.

But that's how deception works.. deceiving while being deceived..

Pretty sad and pathetic.. all from the rulers of the darkness of this world.
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  #169  
Unread 12th April 2014, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Notrash View Post
Thanks again for the confirmation and agreement by failure to refute the exegesis. Your doing a good job helping expose the study and meaning of Rom 9-11. Little more needs to be said. Yojr argument is against Paul and God, not me.

70 AD was a historical fact, and sadly neccesary for the maker of life ti show his election and protection of the new covt and the new law of justification by faith & freedom in Christ to all peoples, races, tongues over the former temporary purposes of the genetic, religious, ritualistic way of the mosaic law.

As mentiioned there are people who are planted in forums sych as these to fan the flames of war through continuously supporting the dispensational, futurist or 'end times mentality of continued prophecied wars and murders, regardless of weather or not their claims and interpretations are openly disproved for one agenda or another.

People who continue in their misindoctrinations actually do a great discervice ti the people calling themseves "Israel", God, the world and society by continuing a genetic or national segregation long after that segregation was disolved by God through the ordinances of the "new covt".

We are however thankfull that their histories have been kept alive as well as some of their perspectives which help clarify, and reprove some of the false Ireneousian (and even Calvin) and futurist, literal dispensational, "end time" doctrines.

Please research the scripture references in the previos posts to any, all following along.

Have a good weekend.
.
Rom 11:28 From the standpoint of the gospel they (Jews) are enemies for your sake, but ]from the standpoint of God's choice they are beloved for the sake of the fathers;
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  #170  
Unread 12th April 2014, 06:35 PM
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11:28 about Paul's times as much as ours. He'd been saying the same thing all through Romans. They are mostly unbelievers, but the promise did come through them and is for them as much as anyone (see the earliest promise and how it perpetuates Gen 3:16 for all nations).

Nothing in 11 is a prediction. it is spurring and prodding Israel to be the missionaries of the Gospel that they were supposed to be.
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