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  #61  
Old 25th October 2013, 01:15 PM
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Bible did anyone "cover" this correctly?

Originally Posted by marc32123 View Post
If Lucifer decided to rebel, couldn't it only have been because God created him with the pride or whatever it was the made him want to?
Pssst....there is no Lucifer TRULY/accurately/etc., mentioned in the bible. Look up the original Hebrew for Isa 14:12 (u'll no doubt quote me...) & don't depend on KJV or any other subsequent version/translation prone to include (saint?) Jerome's "error." (from LXX, to Latin, to English... )
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  #62  
Old 25th October 2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WisdomTree View Post
Irrelevent, votes indicate that there is some kind of democracy going on. We humans are not part of that "demo", thus not allowed to vote.
With that said, I bet on free will. (mind you, betting is not the same as gambling.)


Originally Posted by HIM_In_Me_In_HIM View Post
Pssst....there is no Lucifer TRULY/accurately/etc., mentioned in the bible. Look up the original Hebrew for Isa 14:12 (u'll no doubt quote me...) & don't depend on KJV or any other subsequent version/translation prone to include (saint?) Jerome's "error." (from LXX, to Latin, to English... )
This is true, BTW. There is no proper name "Lucifer" in the Bible. Satan was likely always named Satan.
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  #63  
Old 25th October 2013, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by HIM_In_Me_In_HIM View Post
Pssst....there is no Lucifer TRULY/accurately/etc., mentioned in the bible. Look up the original Hebrew for Isa 14:12 (u'll no doubt quote me...) & don't depend on KJV or any other subsequent version/translation prone to include (saint?) Jerome's "error." (from LXX, to Latin, to English... )
I agree and also predict your statement will not be well received by the KJV only crowd.
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  #64  
Old 25th October 2013, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by marc32123 View Post
If Lucifer decided to rebel, couldn't it only have been because God created him with the pride or whatever it was the made him want to?
Satan was intentionally created to test the will of man, an extraordinary role for an angel because of the great authority he would require.
It's sort of the reason why Satan is so mesmerizing. Terrible, but nonetheless mesmerizing- he is a particularly powerful being in relevance to other angels.

But because of the inherent pride it takes, having to go against God's desire to have us all in grace, he was ultimately filled with inequity.

You see, it's because of how mighty Satan was an angel that made him rebel- he was too sure of himself, and thought he could be God.

Last edited by SwordFall; 25th October 2013 at 04:54 PM.
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  #65  
Old 25th October 2013, 08:05 PM
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Idea and where pretell does this....

Originally Posted by SwordFall View Post
Satan was intentionally created to test the will of man, an extraordinary role for an angel because of the great authority he would require.
It's sort of the reason why Satan is so mesmerizing. Terrible, but nonetheless mesmerizing- he is a particularly powerful being in relevance to other angels.

But because of the inherent pride it takes, having to go against God's desire to have us all in grace, he was ultimately filled with inequity.

You see, it's because of how mighty Satan was an angel that made him rebel- he was too sure of himself, and thought he could be God.
....this come from? Seems to me, we should be discussing/keeping our eyes upon/etc., Jesus, not Satan. Especially since Yeshua won b4, at, and after the cross, as "the prince of this world has been judged."
TO me, Yeshua is "ALL together LOVELY (mesmerizing indeed!), ALL together worthy, ALL together wonderful to me..." (hmmm....reminds me of a song; to wit
Here I Am to Worship -Tim Hughes (Lyrical video) - YouTube

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  #66  
Old 25th October 2013, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by seeingeyes View Post
Wait, in order to be loving one has to create everyone that they can?

How many kids do you have?
That's not what I said. I said not creating something, not creating everything.

If God imagined Satan and realized he would rebel- it is not loving not to create him for that reason.

If I was thinking of having a child and they visited me from the future and I did not like him, could I ever claim unconditional love for refusing to conceive?
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  #67  
Old 26th October 2013, 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Calminian View Post
With that said, I bet on free will. (mind you, betting is not the same as gambling.)




This is true, BTW. There is no proper name "Lucifer" in the Bible. Satan was likely always named Satan.

You can't bet nor gamble unless you have a level 30 Gambler-class skill.
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  #68  
Old 26th October 2013, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by HIM_In_Me_In_HIM View Post
Pssst....there is no Lucifer TRULY/accurately/etc., mentioned in the bible. Look up the original Hebrew for Isa 14:12 (u'll no doubt quote me...) & don't depend on KJV or any other subsequent version/translation prone to include (saint?) Jerome's "error." (from LXX, to Latin, to English... )
Oh so he was called Carl or whatever, who cares, there was an angel that rebelled, a cherub, that was not a man.
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  #69  
Old 28th October 2013, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Calminian View Post
So we have to grant your premise there is no free will?

Your question has a false premise. I don't accept the God created Lucifer with pride.
Gen. 1:31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
Pride is not good, and therefore was not part of the original design. Freedom was.

This thread is actually an argument for the existence of incompatiblistic libertarian free will.
If Lucifer made the choice to rebel, why would he have done so. It had to be because something inside him made him want to. And couldn't that something inside him have only been there because he was created with whatever that something was? The way I see it, he may have had a choice to rebel or not (free will) but the choice he made was because of how he was designed. The desires he had could only have been there because he was created with them. How could it be any other way? That's why I really don't buy into free will, it just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

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Old 28th October 2013, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by marc32123 View Post
If Lucifer made the choice to rebel, why would he have done so. It had to be because something inside him made him want to. And couldn't that something inside him have only been there because he was created with whatever that something was? The way I see it, he may have had a choice (free will) but the choice he made was because of how he was designed. That's why I really don't buy into free will, it just makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.
At least it makes no sense for Lucifier.

BTW, having a "choice"--limited options with consequences for choosing wrong-- is not "free will."
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