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  #11  
Old 22nd October 2013, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzflower92 View Post
Or the fact many in the gay rights movements do questionable moves that is never called on. Like how for some businesses they have gotten death threats when they refused to service gay weddings. Or things like the transgender bathroom bill that has very big implications for the future. Sometimes I think some liberal sects have a self righteous attitude about being progressive in the world's eyes and always never looking at the reasons some people have a problem with some things from the homosexual movement.
I dont support ANY group who uses intimidation or death threats and hate it terribly that some members of the LGBT community use them. As far as transgender right laws, I do support them. However I am against pre-op transgender people (such as myself) from using open changing rooms or showers. I personally do look at the reasons but just because I disagree some think I dont look.
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  #12  
Old 22nd October 2013, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GenetoJean View Post
I dont support ANY group who uses intimidation or death threats and hate it terribly that some members of the LGBT community use them. As far as transgender right laws, I do support them. However I am against pre-op transgender people (such as myself) from using open changing rooms or showers. I personally do look at the reasons but just because I disagree some think I dont look.
Looking at these issues will be more complex and in need of more well thought out ideas. One reason why I am against the bathroom bill is that I believe the bullying won't stop if they were allowed to use any bathroom/changing room of their choice. I have a feeling some really jerky guys would gang up on a transgender boy student or some jerky girls would talk hurtfully about a transgender girl. The bottom line is kids are cruel and will find new ways to be utterly evil to their fellow students.
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  #13  
Old 22nd October 2013, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzflower92 View Post
Looking at these issues will be more complex and in need of more well thought out ideas. One reason why I am against the bathroom bill is that I believe the bullying won't stop if they were allowed to use any bathroom/changing room of their choice. I have a feeling some really jerky guys would gang up on a transgender boy student or some jerky girls would talk hurtfully about a transgender girl. The bottom line is kids are cruel and will find new ways to be utterly evil to their fellow students.
I agree with most of this. I do worry that the transgender community go all out without thinking things through.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 01:18 AM
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Sister, I respect you as my sister in Christ and I'm glad you are stating your concerns in a loving, Christ affirming way. I'm a big believer in treating other people the way you would like to be treated. So harming people physically, mentally, psychologically, verbally or spiritually is wrong by anyone who does it. Sometimes as affirming Christians we do get arrogant and condescending sometimes. Yes we believe in marriage equality and LGBT rights strongly and yes we do believe that homophobia like any other prejudice is contrary to the spirit of Jesus who welcomed all into his embrace. However, we need to acknowledge that not all our sisters or brothers who don't approve of same sex marriages are vile homophobes. Some of them do actually love God's gay and lesbian children but they cannot for one reason or another accept gay and lesbian marriages being performed by their denomination. I encourage people on both sides to come together to understand one another and learn from each other. It doesn't mean we have to agree but it does mean we are willing to be vulnerable and open ourselves to new ways of being and living as Christians. The standard in any relationship whether LGBT or straight is not "Who do you love?" but rather the standard is "Do you love?" Do you seek to love your beloved as God through Christ loves us all?, "Are you willing to support your beloved in good times and in bad, for better or worse, in sickness and health, for richer or poorer till death shall both you part?. All of us whether LGBT or straight have civil marriages which applies to all people. No one should be excluded from a civil marriage. A religious marriage is open only to those whom the church, mosque, synagogue or temple deems worthy of its sacrament and it can make rules according to their conscience and tradition. Religious organizations do not perform marriages. We bless marriages according to the dictates of our tradition and conscience. In France they have a beautiful system where any couple LGBT or straight can obtain a marriage license and be married by the city. From that point on they can seek religious blessing at their house of worship. Marriage equality, LGBT rights and the individual right of conscience for houses of worship can co-exist in mutuality.
Originally Posted by jazzflower92 View Post
Or the fact many in the gay rights movements do questionable moves that is never called on. Like how for some businesses they have gotten death threats when they refused to service gay weddings. Or things like the transgender bathroom bill that has very big implications for the future. Sometimes I think some liberal sects have a self righteous attitude about being progressive in the world's eyes and always never looking at the reasons some people have a problem with some things from the homosexual movement.

Contrary to popular belief a lot of those Christian owners said they have served gay customers but refused when asked to do gay weddings. This is where the gray area comes in.
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  #15  
Old 22nd October 2013, 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by camethodactor View Post
Sister, I respect you as my sister in Christ and I'm glad you are stating your concerns in a loving, Christ affirming way. I'm a big believer in treating other people the way you would like to be treated. So harming people physically, mentally, psychologically, verbally or spiritually is wrong by anyone who does it. Sometimes as affirming Christians we do get arrogant and condescending sometimes. Yes we believe in marriage equality and LGBT rights strongly and yes we do believe that homophobia like any other prejudice is contrary to the spirit of Jesus who welcomed all into his embrace. However, we need to acknowledge that not all our sisters or brothers who don't approve of same sex marriages are vile homophobes. Some of them do actually love God's gay and lesbian children but they cannot for one reason or another accept gay and lesbian marriages being performed by their denomination. I encourage people on both sides to come together to understand one another and learn from each other. It doesn't mean we have to agree but it does mean we are willing to be vulnerable and open ourselves to new ways of being and living as Christians. The standard in any relationship whether LGBT or straight is not "Who do you love?" but rather the standard is "Do you love?" Do you seek to love your beloved as God through Christ loves us all?, "Are you willing to support your beloved in good times and in bad, for better or worse, in sickness and health, for richer or poorer till death shall both you part?. All of us whether LGBT or straight have civil marriages which applies to all people. No one should be excluded from a civil marriage. A religious marriage is open only to those whom the church, mosque, synagogue or temple deems worthy of its sacrament and it can make rules according to their conscience and tradition. Religious organizations do not perform marriages. We bless marriages according to the dictates of our tradition and conscience. In France they have a beautiful system where any couple LGBT or straight can obtain a marriage license and be married by the city. From that point on they can seek religious blessing at their house of worship. Marriage equality, LGBT rights and the individual right of conscience for houses of worship can co-exist in mutuality.
I agree with this a lot. I can tell when someone truly is trying to help me out of love and a down in the heart belief that I am doing wrong. We may disagree but I appreciate their love.
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  #16  
Old 22nd October 2013, 01:26 AM
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If I could make the rules it would be Civil Unions for straight and gay couples. To make it fair for everyone. Also Civil Unions will still have benefits and everything. I would make civil unions the government thing while marriage would be the religious thing. I might sound a little shrill but at heart I don't think its persecution but strong cases of this country going through culture wars. Like any culture war there will be sides that will have strong opinions one what they support. They see one side having a bad influence on the public at large.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jazzflower92 View Post
If I could make the rules it would be Civil Unions for straight and gay couples. To make it fair for everyone. Also Civil Unions will still have benefits and everything. I would make civil unions the government thing while marriage would be the religious thing. I might sound a little shrill but at heart I don't think its persecution but strong cases of this country going through culture wars. Like any culture war there will be sides that will have strong opinions one what they support. They see one side having a bad influence on the public at large.
I have said this, this part about civil unions, from the start of the whole debate.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 01:40 AM
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Originally Posted by GenetoJean View Post
I have said this, this part about civil unions, from the start of the whole debate.
The only real big issue is of gay marriage and how appropriate of an idea to introduce gay history to even kindergarteners. Not to mention I think some parts of gay history might be white washed by some with an agenda. Why do I bring this up is here in California Jerry Brown as introduced tons of these types of legislations. I think maybe eight grade and high school would be a better place to begin.

Despite all of this I don't want anymore conservatives supporting people like Putin because that would be really face palming. Even if one is against gay marriage the laws he has in place goes too far and a lot of these laws have led to church officials encouraging followers to beat gay people up. Supporting the family is good but if it means aligning with an ex-KGB member then count me out. That's another thing is the fact these laws stifle free speech to the point anyone caught wearing a gay pride symbol is fined or put in jail. If you read about Scott Lively then I can be sorry to tell you that this is more of his handy work and is going to be in Russia trying to be an even bigger influence than before.
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Old 22nd October 2013, 03:16 AM
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What I like to call “armchair” persecution.
I theorise that since the Bible speaks about how the true believers will find themselves being persecuted, and that such persecution is a sign you’re on the right path, it pulls at the conscience of many overweight, under exercised middle class westerners that their lives are somewhat lacking in persecution, and so to cover this seeming gap in their spiritual lives, they’ll desperately take anything remotely misconstruable as persecution and wrap it around themselves like a big reasuring blanket.
…”unfounded internet rumour that one of the Columbine murderers asked someone if they were a Christian before he killed her? HE WAS PERSECUTING CHRISTIANS! Thank goodness, Christians are being persecuted, I am a Christian, therefore I am being persecuted, QED. I’m so glad I can sleep soundly in my warm queen size bed after eating twice my daily recomended caloric requirement and not feel guilty about the world’s poor or starving. What with me being PERSECUTED and all, I must be on the right track. I can’t wait for the “war on Christmas” to start up to make me feel even more persecuted and thereby justify my blatant crass consumerism!”
The Myth of the Man Arrested for Bible Study » Dispatches from the Culture Wars
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Old 22nd October 2013, 03:16 AM
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