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  #31  
Unread 15th September 2013, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by bhsmte View Post
If there is a God - bottom line, no one knows the answer to these questions, its all anybody's guess.
No one knows? That sounds like a statement of faith!


Many people have dedicated their life's work into finding answers. Are you certain that it is all futile? Perhaps there is no one person who has all the answers, but that doesn't mean we don't reap any rewards for our efforts.


No scientist knows the answers to all their questions either. But that doesn't stop us from believing what they say they are relatively certain of. Nor is everyone who claims to be a scientist trustworthy. We have to use good judgement to determine who we can trust and who we can't.
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Col 1:16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.


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  #32  
Unread 15th September 2013, 01:47 PM
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One downside of it is that the whole only by Jesus argument seems to get watered down a bit once we allow exceptions in our doctrine.

That’s exactly what satan intended... Jesus warned us of the 5 things sat
an uses to choke God’s Word out of our lives so it bears no fruit... persecution, affliction, cares of this world, lusts of other things, and deceitfulness of riches (Mark 4:14-20)


Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which brings not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 7:17-20
Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Hebrews 6:8
But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Matthew 7:21-23
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. (see James 1:22)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


If there is a God - bottom line, no one knows the answer to these questions, its all anybody's guess.
If that's true... then WHY did God publish His Word which contains answers to all the questions we need to know answers to?

And, whassup with this "if there be a God" bidness anyhow????

Psalms 14:1
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
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  #33  
Unread 18th September 2013, 05:40 PM
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September 18, 2013

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved. (NIV)
Acts 4:12
Meditation

Pluralism is a word popular today. It expresses the idea that every belief system is equal to all others. In a spiritual sense, pluralism teaches that all roads lead to the same end. But the Bible teaches something altogether different. On through faith in Jesus Christ can we have a relationship with God assured. Have you trusted in Jesus Christ as your Saviour?
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  #34  
Unread 18th September 2013, 05:46 PM
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The RCC has been drifting into doctrinally dangerous waters for years now. Theistic evolution, all religions paths to god etc.

It's the last days we can expect to see deception coming from churches.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons

"... new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than a hypothesis."
— John Paul II, 1996

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  #35  
Unread 18th September 2013, 05:52 PM
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....4) What did Pope Francis actually say about atheists and salvation?
Here is the passage:
First of all, you ask if the God of the Christians forgives those who do not believe and do not seek faith.
Given that—and this is fundamental—God's mercy has no limits if he who asks for mercy does so in contrition and with a sincere heart, the issue for those who do not believe in God is in obeying their own conscience.
In fact, listening and obeying it, means deciding about what is perceived to be good or to be evil.
The goodness or the wickedness of our behavior depends on this decision.
In this passage, you’ll note that after introducing the topic of salvation, Pope Francis begins by saying God’s mercy has no limits “if he who asks for mercy does so in contrition and with a sincere heart.”
This statement appears to apply to believers—the ones you would expect to ask God for mercy with contrition, etc.
Pope Francis then pivots to discuss “the issue for those who do not believe in God.”
He says that for them “the issue” is following their conscience, which will result in good behavior.
This is what the press, etc., have been interpreting as him saying that they can be saved.
But he doesn’t actually say that.
Believers also need to follow their conscience, and doing so will result in them having right behavior. But if they don’t follow their consciences then they sin and need to ask for mercy with contrition and a sincere heart.
What are atheists supposed to do if they don’t follow their consciences?
Pope Francis does not address this question.


5) That’s confusing. What is going on here?
There has already been one case in which Pope Francis made remarks that the press took as saying atheists could be saved, yet when his remarks were examined closely, they didn’t say that at all.
You can read about that case here.
Now we have something similar happening.
Why?
One reason, I suspect, is that the pope may be trying to remain within what the Magisterium has already said.

6) What has the Magisterium already said on the subject of atheists and salvation? (More @ National Catholic Register)
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  #36  
Unread 18th September 2013, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by BlunderAngel View Post
Pope Francis then pivots to discuss “the issue for those who do not believe in God.”
He says that for them “the issue” is following their conscience, which will result in good behavior.
This is what the press, etc., have been interpreting as him saying that they can be saved.
That's a valid interpretation considering that answer was a direct response to the question concerning the forgiveness of God towards those who don't believe in Him.
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  #37  
Unread 18th September 2013, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Svt4Him View Post
Is this just a RCC thing or are there non-RCC's who believe this?
God is the only one who gets it right always. Dont always go with everything man says. Always go to God's Word and Him for the truth. We also have the Holy Spirit in us who is The Spirit of Truth.
If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't

John 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”


The sad thing is there are innocent people who follow everything man says and are being deceived through that.
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If God is for us, who can ever be against us? Since he did not spare even his own Son but gave him up for us all, won’t he also give us everything else?

Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one—for God himself has given us right standing with himself.
Who then will condemn us? No one—for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God’s right hand, pleading for us - Romans 8

I LOVE YOU JESUS!!!!!
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  #38  
Unread 19th September 2013, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Svt4Him View Post
Is this just a RCC thing or are there non-RCC's who believe this?
yeah I heard about this. And the Pope BEFORE this guy stated that if you're not a member of the Catholic Church you can't go to heaven.

These POPE's need to get together and make up their minds I'd say! lol

Oh wait a minute! .. How in the world are they going to reconcile these differences when there is a Papal dogma established by one of the Popes stating that in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the pope is preserved from the possibility of error. ... sweet mercy... there's gonna be some cat-fights over that isn't there? Since neither of them is wrong.. lol

Foolishess.

I'm not anti-Catholic, but I am against any spirit that keeps any person bound and from what the Word of God has to say. I'm pro people & pro Word of God.
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  #39  
Unread 18th September 2014, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by bhsmte View Post
Both Billy Graham and Joel Osteen are on record as stating you don't have to go through Jesus to get to heaven either, which is basically saying the same thing.

I believe, the immorality of how many christians judge good people who don't believe in the christian God to be something religious leaders are starting to see as problematic. Is it moral to say a serial killer who accepts Jesus 5 minutes before he is executed is now saved, but the person across the world who lives a loving/caring life, but doesn't believe in the christian God is doomed?

Basic common morality would tell you, any loving just God wouldn't want it that way.
God doesn't judge us for being good people he judges us because we are sinners.. He sees our good deeds in a different light..

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities.

Our good deeds our righteousnesses are as filthy rags, if we will humble ourselves in his sight and come to him through his Son Jesus our sins will be forgiven.. this is his promise.
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Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
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Unread 18th September 2014, 03:24 AM
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The following quotes show just how far the churches of today have strayed from the wisdom of their founding fathers.

Martin Luther (1483-1546) (Lutheran)

"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist."

(Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 2., pg. 121 by Froom.

(In response to a papal bull [official decree]): "I despise and attack it, as impious, false... It is Christ Himself who is condemned therein... I rejoice in having to bear such ills for the best of causes. Already I feel greater liberty in my heart; for at last I know that the pope is antichrist, and that his throne is that of Satan himself." --D'Aubigné, b.6, ch. 9.



John Calvin (1509-1564) (Presbyterian)

"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom we speak and whose language we adopt... I shall briefly show that (Paul's words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that which applies them to the Papacy."

Taken from Institutes by John Calvin.



Cotton Mather (1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian)

"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian Church: and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them."

Taken from The Fall of Babylon by Cotton Mather in Froom's book, The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers, Vol. 3, pg. 113.



John Knox (1505-1572) (Scotch Presbyterian)

Knox wrote to abolish "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many ages exercised over the church" and that the pope should be recognized as "the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks."

Taken from The Zurich Letters, pg. 199 by John Knox.



Thomas Cranmer (1489-1556) (Anglican)
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures, old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and Daniel.)

Taken from Works by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7.



John Wesley (1703-1791) (Methodist)

Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too, properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers... He it is...that exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped...claiming the highest power, and highest honour...claiming the prerogatives which belong to God alone."

Taken from Antichrist and His Ten Kingdoms by John Wesley, pg. 110.



Roger Williams (1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America)
He spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vassals, yea over the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking against the God of heaven, thinking to change times and laws; but he is the son of perdition (II Thess. 2)."

Taken from The Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52.



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Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
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