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  #1  
Old 9th September 2013, 11:11 PM
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Pope Francis Invites Founder of Liberation Theology to the Vatican

Liberation theology finds new welcome in Pope Francis' Vatican | Religion News Service

where he is expected to find a far warmer welcome than he would have from Popes John Paul or Benedict.

Not that I don't understand where Pope John Paul was coming from, thanks to reading "The Pontiff in Winter." Emotionally scarred by his experience with Communism, he was convinced that a strong, stable government under a ruthless, cruel, anti-human rights dictator was preferable to revolution by the people--so fearful was he of Communism.

Our own government kept a lot of evil dictators in power, too--Diem in Vietnam, the Shah of Iran, etc.

Pope Francis sees the whole picture--and how shameful it has been that tyrants have been supported by the US and the Vatican, however tacitly.
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Old 9th September 2013, 11:16 PM
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There's a huge difference between what John Paul II did (travel to Poland, preach peace and freedom) and what some Liberation Theologians do (preach taking up arms and fighting). I think Pope Francis is calling Gutierrez to Rome to insure he knows the Pontiff's anti-war, anti-violent revolution stance. We'll see.
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Old 9th September 2013, 11:26 PM
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When Archbishop Oscar Romero was assassinated in El Salvador, he was saying Mass.

There have been many 'revolutions' that have been won by passive resistance--our own civil rights movement, South Africa, India.

But Pope Francis wants us to support the poor and vulnerable--and bishops and priests can't do that while they're dining with dictators.
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Old 9th September 2013, 11:27 PM
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As usual, you skirted he issue. But that's OK. Like I said, we'll see.
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Old 10th September 2013, 09:18 AM
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Well, the real problem with Liberation Theology is the theology - it accepts certain Marxist metaphysical principles (as much as Marx can be said to have metaphysical principles) about the revelation of history which are not compatible with Christianity.
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Old 10th September 2013, 01:42 PM
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Liberation Theology is a condemned heresy. It replace Christ, the Gospel, and true loving-compassion and charity for the poor with Marxism. It merely retains a thin veneer of Christianity with the essence or 'substance' replaced with Far-Leftist and Marxist principles. It is akin to grabbing a bottle of pills, emptying it save for one or two pills; then refilling the bottle full of pills of another substance. It may retain some small part of the prior essence (one or two pieces); however, largely it has been supplanted and usurped by entirely different substance and underlying principles altogether.
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Old 10th September 2013, 01:43 PM
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I've got a copy of The Theology of Liberation on my bookshelf, but it's still on the 'to read' list. Anyone here read it?
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Old 10th September 2013, 02:53 PM
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Not that I don't understand where Pope John Paul was coming from, thanks to reading "The Pontiff in Winter." Emotionally scarred by his experience with Communism, he was convinced that a strong, stable government under a ruthless, cruel, anti-human rights dictator was preferable to revolution by the people--so fearful was he of Communism.
and he was right to be fearful of violent Socialists, after seeing what National Socialists have done in Germany and what Marxist Socialists have done in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cambodia
I would assume that every rational person would have a fear of Socialists
just looking back at all the murder and rape that Socialist armies have done

the human rights abuses and abject poverty in Cuba
the guerilla warfare carried out in South America by Socialists
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Old 10th September 2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rhamiel View Post
and he was right to be fearful of violent Socialists, after seeing what National Socialists have done in Germany and what Marxist Socialists have done in Russia, China, Vietnam, Cambodia
I would assume that every rational person would have a fear of Socialists
just looking back at all the murder and rape that Socialist armies have done

the human rights abuses and abject poverty in Cuba
the guerilla warfare carried out in South America by Socialists
The Nazis were not socialists. Socialism is not compatible with Nazism and among the greatest targets of Nazi hate were socialists/communists
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Old 10th September 2013, 03:39 PM
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the Nazi Party was the "National Socialist German Workers' Party"
that was the real name of the party

people forget that they used the old Socialist weapon of class envy to stoke the fires of anti-Semitism
the Nazi party was also anti-democracy and anti-bourgeoisie

now I am not saying that the National Socialists of Germany were identical to the Stalinist Socialists of Russia

the Stalinist/Marxist variety focus more on class struggle while the National Socialists were obsessed with Nationalism and Racism (a doctrine of Blood and Soil)
but they were both Statists, who believed in the superiority of the State over the individual, both had a hatred of Capitalism, both were of a Revolutionary character, and both killed millions of people.
It is only because of the Leftist academics in the USA that the Nazi party is not commonly known to be a form of Socialism

if you want to see more of the racist character of Socialism you might want to look at some of the tactics used by Chairman Mao
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