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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #131  
Old 4th September 2013, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gradyll View Post
?


Thanks for confirming my post.

When you are obviously wrong why do you persist?
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Scientific evidence is evidence which serves to either support or counter a scientific theory or hypothesis. Such evidence is expected to be empirical evidence and in accordance with scientific method. Standards for scientific evidence vary according to the field of inquiry, but the strength of scientific evidence is generally based on the results of statistical analysis and the strength of scientific controls.
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  #132  
Old 4th September 2013, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gradyll View Post
I was wondering when they would go after the crosses in federal cemetaries, claiming separation. Arlington would get a face lift thats for sure.
... Don't give'em any ideas.
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  #133  
Old 4th September 2013, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by gradyll View Post
actually it was because people would see the ten commandments in a class room, and resultingly do the right thing. They said that was unacceptable- david bartons studies on it. Look it up on you tube if you don't believe us.
Ten Commandments? No evidence that religious people act more morally than non-religous people. In fact, plenty of evidence points the other direction.

Atheists don't commit as much crime as the Religious do
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The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.



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  #134  
Old 4th September 2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by gradyll View Post
what are earth are they trying to do here, electrifying water vapor and simulating an early earth atmosphere, if not trying to create something living? Roasting marshmallows?
gradyll, what you seem to be missing is that the chemicals of "life" are just chemicals. I cannot speak directly to Miller and Urey's ultimate goal but in science sometimes it is SUFFICIENT to run a synthesis without going all the way to creating life.

Look at the evolution debate that rages on this board. Creationists can't deal with the evidence for evolution so they demand that evolutionists explain the ORIGINS OF LIFE.

That's a reasonable request. How did life start? But the scientists look at it differently from you. They aren't Dr. Frankenstein. They usually approach these things methodically and stepwise.

First step: how did the amino acids that, themselves, form the basis of life generate?

You see, they were doing what the Creationists want everyone to do: take it back to as close to the start as possible.


seriously, what was their motive? Everything I read on it (even non ICR material ) makes it sound like they were simulating abiogenesis (early earth atmosphere). I think you are wrong here.
THEN GO TO THE SOURCE! From Stanley Miller himself in 1953 after the initial experiments were run:

Originally Posted by Miller
"The idea that the organic compounds that serve as the basis for life were formed when the earth had an atmosphere of methane, ammonia, water and hydrogen instead of carbon dioxide, nitrogen, oxygen and water was suggested by Oparin (1) and has been given emphasis recently by Urey (2) and Bernal (3).

"In order to test this hypothesis an apparatus was built to circulate CH4, NH3, H2O and H2 past an electric discharge. The resulting mixture has been tested for amino acids by paper chromatography. (from HERE)
Now when I read this, what I see is someone attempting to make AMINO ACIDS...NOT life per se. It is an attempt to confirm earlier hypotheses around the development of the BUILDING BLOCKS necessary for life.

Miller and Urey's 1959 paper in Science carries the title: "Organic Compound Synthesis on the Primitive Earth". That ALSO does not sound like they were trying to make "Life"...but rather ORGANIC COMPOUNDS. Yes, organic compounds likely related to life, but not life any more than a mole of thymine is "Life" or a microgram of adenine is "life".
  #135  
Old 4th September 2013, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by gradyll View Post
actually it was because people would see the ten commandments in a class room, and resultingly do the right thing. They said that was unacceptable- david bartons studies on it. Look it up on you tube if you don't believe us.
We don't need government proselytizing to us ... especially not on my dime. You think the Ten Commandments are a good influence on kids? Super. Then you can hang them all over your house, take your kids to church 5 times a week, etc. ... just not on my dime. Thank you.
  #136  
Old 4th September 2013, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Davian

Science books, mostly.
Yet you believe them?
  #137  
Old 4th September 2013, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bhsmte

Ten Commandments? No evidence that religious people act more morally than non-religous people. In fact, plenty of evidence points the other direction.

Atheists don't commit as much crime as the Religious do
What is the point of this? All mens hearts are evil.
  #138  
Old 4th September 2013, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by toolmanjantzi View Post
What is the point of this? All mens hearts are evil.
Try hard, you can figure it out.
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Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either.

- Albert Einstein

The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.



If the past sits in judgment of the present, the future will be lost.

- Winston Churchill










  #139  
Old 4th September 2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by toolmanjantzi View Post
Yet you believe them?
On some topics, I accept that they are accurate. It depends on the subject, and on the evidence. Your point?
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  #140  
Old 4th September 2013, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by StormanNorman View Post
We don't need government proselytizing to us ... especially not on my dime. You think the Ten Commandments are a good influence on kids? Super. Then you can hang them all over your house, take your kids to church 5 times a week, etc. ... just not on my dime. Thank you.
well the government should not be educating the masses at all on our dime, it's unconstitutional. And yet it happens... I mean there is nothing in the constitution that states that tax dollars should be spent educating the masses and having the government control education. But it happens...
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