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Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum The Endtimes & Prophecy Forum for the discussion of future events. No full preterist views. Partial preterists welcomed.

View Poll Results: Do you think Satan has been locked up for the past 2,000 years?
Yes 5 16.13%
No 26 83.87%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Unread 3rd August 2013, 10:46 AM
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Locked up yes, but.....

Originally Posted by Houly View Post
The question for the poll should have been:
Do you think Satan has been locked up in the Abyss for the past 2,000 years?

I thought the first post would make it obvious that I was asking if Revelation 20:1-3 has been fulfilled.

It's too late to change the title of the thread, but I updated the first post with the clearer question.

John does not merely say Satan is "bound." Satan is locked up in the Abyss (locked, covered, sealed) so that he cannot deceive the nations until the thousand years are over; that's what I meant by "locked up."
What about his henchmen, doing the deceiving, that he still works through, eg, Rev.13, 17, and 18? btw yes, the Seals, Trumpets, and Bowls are in apocalyptic parabolic inspired language, ie, judgment with a promise, or the promise with judgment - good observation posters, ie, not that I'm anyone (IICor.4:7).
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  #32  
Unread 3rd August 2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bowlfullofjelly View Post
No, I believe Rev 20 is actual. It is a prophecy, not parable or allegory.
I agree that it is not a parable or allegory; it is an apocalypse.
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Unread 3rd August 2013, 11:43 AM
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Satan has been bound. The problem is not allowing the scripture to say HOW he's bound!

Jesus gave us insight on this in Matthew 12:25-30 in a confrontation with the Pharisees...Jesus says:
25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
27 If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29 Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

30 He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

Jesus is saying He came to bind Satan by the power of the gospel!!!

Then there's John 12:30-32. Jesus is about to head to the cross and God has spoken to Him audibly from heaven...and He says:
30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.
31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”


This is what Revelation 12:7-12 is speaking of. Judgement has come to the world because Satan is cast out from heaven!

This is how Satan is bound! He is bound by the power of the gospel. This is what's going on. Jesus made several statements concerning this binding...like when He says "If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed".


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Unread 3rd August 2013, 03:46 PM
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The devil is in the details

Originally Posted by ebedmelech View Post
Satan has been bound. The problem is not allowing the scripture to say HOW he's bound!

Jesus gave us insight on this in Matthew 12:25-30 in a confrontation with the Pharisees...Jesus says:
25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
27 If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29 Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.

30 He who is not with Me is against Me; and he who does not gather with Me scatters.

Jesus is saying He came to bind Satan by the power of the gospel!!!

Then there's John 12:30-32. Jesus is about to head to the cross and God has spoken to Him audibly from heaven...and He says:
30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not come for My sake, but for your sakes.
31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”


This is what Revelation 12:7-12 is speaking of. Judgement has come to the world because Satan is cast out from heaven!

This is how Satan is bound! He is bound by the power of the gospel. This is what's going on. Jesus made several statements concerning this binding...like when He says "If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed".


Lk.11:21, 22 gives more detail where at the "last temptation" and the final victory at the Cross Satan was "bound," and our buddy Michael at Rev.12:7 did the actual 'binding' - see our buddy at work again at Rev.20 in more detail. Because of this, the Holy Spirit, based upon the power of the true Word, can build the Kingdom of God on earth. Something like this, ie, just ol' old Jack
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Unread 9th August 2013, 09:54 AM
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How could Satan be bound since he has not been cast out of Heaven yet? Revelation is clear that Satan is cast out of Heaven in the last days. Some will point to a statement made by Christ to claim that Satan has already been cast from Heaven.
Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.
Jesus did not say that Satan has already been cast out, but that He “beheld” Satan fall from heaven. It is certainly possible that the Son of God could have seen a vision of a future event. So what you have is one passage in the Bible that clearly indicates Satan is cast out of Heaven in the last days, and there is zero passages in the Bible that clearly indicate Satan is cast out before then. The idea that Satan was already cast from Heaven is one those things that people have been told for so long that they no longer notice or care that it is not in the Bible.
John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
“Now is the judgment of this world”, this describes the significance of the crucifixion of Christ…an event which was about to take place. The crucifixion of Christ had a massive impact on the Day of Judgment as we all know. He goes on to say, *now* *shall* the prince of this world *be* cast out. So the devil is to *be* cast out at some time in the future because of *now* which is to say because of the crucifixion of Christ.
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Unread 9th August 2013, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Done222 View Post
How could Satan be bound since he has not been cast out of Heaven yet? Revelation is clear that Satan is cast out of Heaven in the last days. Some will point to a statement made by Christ to claim that Satan has already been cast from Heaven.

Jesus did not say that Satan has already been cast out, but that He “beheld” Satan fall from heaven. It is certainly possible that the Son of God could have seen a vision of a future event. So what you have is one passage in the Bible that clearly indicates Satan is cast out of Heaven in the last days, and there is zero passages in the Bible that clearly indicate Satan is cast out before then. The idea that Satan was already cast from Heaven is one those things that people have been told for so long that they no longer notice or care that it is not in the Bible.

“Now is the judgment of this world”, this describes the significance of the crucifixion of Christ…an event which was about to take place. The crucifixion of Christ had a massive impact on the Day of Judgment as we all know. He goes on to say, *now* *shall* the prince of this world *be* cast out. So the devil is to *be* cast out at some time in the future because of *now* which is to say because of the crucifixion of Christ.
The problem with that is that you make the assumption that everything in Revelation takes place in the yet-future, and force everything else to fit that scenario, even if the context if those other passages seems to indicate otherwise.
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  #37  
Unread 9th August 2013, 01:20 PM
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I don’t understand why so many people think that Satan is a complete moron. Satan is the great adversary…big enough to deceive the world, yet he is a complete idiot? Satan knows the power of God, yet he is stupid enough to be in open rebellion against God? Why should anyone worry about someone as stupid as Satan?

Actually, Satan is not that stupid.
Ezekiel 28:15-16 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Satan was perfect in all of his ways, meaning Satan did not openly sin. Satan has never been in open rebellion against God. At some point iniquity is found in Satan, meaning Satan stays within the letter of the Law but at some point sin within the heart of Satan is exposed.
Psalms 21:8 Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee.
It is Jesus who destroys the devil, and He does this by exposing the hatred in the heart of Satan.

Getting back to the bizarre claim that the devil is a complete moron, look at what Revelations says about Satan being cast from heaven.
Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
When Satan is cast from heaven there is but a short time left…meaning the time of the end. Satan knows that he has a short time left, and he become upset.

Did Satan know beforehand that his time would run out?

Did Satan suddenly look at the calendar and notice that his time is almost over and so he gets all upset?

What an idiot.

Again I would suggest that Satan is not stupid. I would suggest that Satan does not know that his time is short until the time of the end. That’s why he becomes upset and is cast from heaven. It is revealed how Christ exposes the hatred within the heart of Satan. That’s part of the revelation that occurs in the end times.

This is not just about the book of Revelation. This ties together many passages from numerous books of the Bible.

Satan was a “liar and a murderer from the beginning”, but where in the Bible does Satan *openly* commit a sin?
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Unread 9th August 2013, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Done222 View Post
How could Satan be bound since he has not been cast out of Heaven yet? Revelation is clear that Satan is cast out of Heaven in the last days. Some will point to a statement made by Christ to claim that Satan has already been cast from Heaven.
You have this viewpoint because you don't understand Satan is bound because of the power of the gospel to save people from sins power.

Pay attention to what Jesus is saying in Matthew 12:22-29.
Originally Posted by Done222 View Post
Jesus did not say that Satan has already been cast out, but that He “beheld” Satan fall from heaven. It is certainly possible that the Son of God could have seen a vision of a future event. So what you have is one passage in the Bible that clearly indicates Satan is cast out of Heaven in the last days, and there is zero passages in the Bible that clearly indicate Satan is cast out before then. The idea that Satan was already cast from Heaven is one those things that people have been told for so long that they no longer notice or care that it is not in the Bible.
How hard is it to understand this verse...John 12:31:
31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

Originally Posted by Done222 View Post
“Now is the judgment of this world”, this describes the significance of the crucifixion of Christ…an event which was about to take place. The crucifixion of Christ had a massive impact on the Day of Judgment as we all know. He goes on to say, *now* *shall* the prince of this world *be* cast out. So the devil is to *be* cast out at some time in the future because of *now* which is to say because of the crucifixion of Christ.
No it doesn't! It's more encompassing than that. Look up the word "now"...it means "now". When you read Revelation 12:7-12, you get what Christ meant. At that instant when He said "now the ruler of this world will be cast out" Satan was being cast out of heaven. Jesus sacrifice for sin ENDS SATAN'S ABILITY TO ACCUSE US BEFORE GOD...because our sins have been paid for. We become righteous in Christ...so Satan cannot accuse us.
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Originally Posted by ebedmelech View Post
You have this viewpoint because you don't understand Satan is bound because of the power of the gospel to save people from sins power.

Pay attention to what Jesus is saying in Matthew 12:22-29.

How hard is it to understand this verse...John 12:31:
31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.


No it doesn't! It's more encompassing than that. Look up the word "now"...it means "now". When you read Revelation 12:7-12, you get what Christ meant. At that instant when He said "now the ruler of this world will be cast out" Satan was being cast out of heaven. Jesus sacrifice for sin ENDS SATAN'S ABILITY TO ACCUSE US BEFORE GOD...because our sins have been paid for. We become righteous in Christ...so Satan cannot accuse us.
In Matthew 12 Jesus is casting devils out of individuals. He goes on to talk about binding the strong man, but the passage gives no indication of when the devil will be cast from heaven.

Let’s say a football team recruits the best quarterback in the country. The coach says, “Now we shall defeat our arch rival”.

Did the game take place *now*?

No, that’s not what the coach is saying.

*Now* (with the addition of this new player) they will defeat their arch rival when the game is played. (Perhaps several weeks in the future).

*Now* the ruler of this world SHALL BE cast out.

So the *now* means something changed at that time so that the enemy is defeated, but the casting out SHALL BE.
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Unread 9th August 2013, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Done222 View Post
In Matthew 12 Jesus is casting devils out of individuals. He goes on to talk about binding the strong man, but the passage gives no indication of when the devil will be cast from heaven.

Let’s say a football team recruits the best quarterback in the country. The coach says, “Now we shall defeat our arch rival”.

Did the game take place *now*?

No, that’s not what the coach is saying.

*Now* (with the addition of this new player) they will defeat their arch rival when the game is played. (Perhaps several weeks in the future).

*Now* the ruler of this world SHALL BE cast out.

So the *now* means something changed at that time so that the enemy is defeated, but the casting out SHALL BE.
We're not dealing with football. We're dealing with what Jesus said in Matthew 12 and John 12. Perhaps that's why you don't get the meaning.

What you have done is missed the entire purpose that Jesus did the things He did in Matthew 12. In doing them He's demonstrating His power over Satan.

As the Pharisees accuse Him of casting out Satan by the power of Satan, Jesus then say's this:
25 And knowing their thoughts Jesus said to them,“Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and any city or house divided against itself will not stand.
26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then will his kingdom stand?
27 If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges.
28 But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29 Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.


You're not paying attention the the parable..."the strong man's house" is the world, into which Jesus came. Jesus is saying HE CAME to bind the strong man (Satan) so he can plunder his house. Jesus does that through salvation which He purchased on the cross.

Same thing with John 12 you don't get what Jesus is saying there fully. In John 12:31 He says:
31 Now judgment is upon this world; nowthe ruler of this world will be cast out.

As Jesus speaks in John 12:32 you understand why Satan is cast out:
32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.”
The cross is why Satan is cast out.


That's exactly what you see in Revelation 12:7-12.
__________________
for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,

A Jew in the Spirit! and a member of the 144,000 sealed!!!
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