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General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology

View Poll Results: Is Replacement Theology anti-semitic?
Yes it is 19 41.30%
No it is not 23 50.00%
I am unsure 3 6.52%
Other 1 2.17%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 16th May 2013, 06:48 PM
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Replacement Theology "anti-semitic"?

Since another thread on this topic was closed by the OP, I thought I would start another one.

What are other's view on this? I have heard it is an "anti-Semitic" view.

Please try and keep this a civil discussion, and also try to stay on the topic of the thread
[at least as much as possible ]
Thanks

http://www.christianforums.com/t7745438-9/#post63063372
Replacement Theology?

Originally Posted by motherprayer
What IS it? I've seen this term a few times, and have no idea. Help me out, please, learned theologians?
Replacement theology along with supersessionism, fulfillment theology is essentially the doctrine that the church replaced Israel and became the spiritual Israel based upon the new covenant replacing the old covenant and changing hands so to speak. This theology along with others has been one of the biggest sources of persecution of the Jewish people.

Quite a lot of theologians held this view a century ago. After the nation of Israel was reestablished a lot of theologians started to rethink their theology after realizing that God had not forsaken his ancient people and prophecy was again being literaly fulfilled. The Apostle Paul said that God would again graft back the natural olive branch and that the church would be one new man.

Replacement theology in my opinion is not biblical.
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  #2  
Old 16th May 2013, 07:22 PM
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I dont think theology on its own is necessarily anti Semitic unless it specifically targets the Jewish people. However bad or incorrect theology can do much damage when in the wrong hands.

History has proved that replacement theology has directly caused terrible, horrific and inhuman persecution of the Jewish people. Probably we are more aware of this in Europe. I dont think anti Semitism has been an issue in the US to any ware near this extent.

A combination of replacement theology and further theology on interracial marriage led to a very bitter propaganda campaign against the Jewish people in Germany and Europe. This culminated in the holocaust. Hitler definitely used church theology for his own purpose but he also exercised successful propaganda on the populous to achieve his ends. Hatred of the Jews was rife and that sentiment remained for a very long time. Unfortunately anti Semitism is on the rise again and guess what people are saying.

Theology differs with Christians but it seems that wherever there has been replacement theology it has to some degree resulted in real damage to the Jewish people.

Also I do find it rather alarming and disturbing the level of anti-Semitism on CF in the various different forums.
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Old 16th May 2013, 08:00 PM
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Again I am in total agreement with Habakk.

If one understands RT to be the teaching that the Church has replaced Israel and even transmogrified into Israel then it is historically accurate to say this teaching has on many occasions been a pre-cursor or spring-board for anti-Semitism. This is usually perceived by such comments (that are rife on these Boards) as Israel no longer figures in G-ds plans, Jerusalem is irrelevant, and the only Jew G-d is interested in is the one who becomes a Christian or joins the Church.

There are many decent people who sit under RT teaching and are generally oblivious to the repercussions, and it largely by-passes them and has no effect, and certainly doesn't influence them in being anti-Semitic...but there are many others who are vehement in their opposition to those of us that support the State of Israel, love the Jewish people and seek to demonstate that the Church has had a beastly record in the past towards the Jews, and in these days we have the opportunity to readdress the balance and seek G-ds heart.

Sadly many that hold these views are fairly inflexible, and prefer to tilt at windmills by wrongly labelling all supporters of Israel as Dispensationalists, or believers in Dual Covenant Theology...when the truth is we see in the Scriptures clear passages that refer to Israel and the Jews, and we see with our eyes the outworking of G-ds plans and promises through so many things that cannot be buried under pithy rhetoric or traditional theology, such as the re-emergence of Israel as a nation, the return to the land of the Jewish people, the restoration of Hebrew as a spoken language, the flourishing of the land, and the re-building of the old cities and towns.

My opinion is that some people are more concerned with defending their theology, or their traditional understanding in these matters, even when the evidence cries out against them on a daily basis...you can't get a louder wake up call than seeing Israel exists again as a nation.

So in summing up I would say that Replacement Theology in itself is not overtly anti-Semitic, but I believe it is the foundation for various aspects of Christian anti-Semitism, and is probably one of the most pernicious teachings to have ever crept in amongst us.
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Old 16th May 2013, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Habakk View Post
History has proved that replacement theology has directly caused terrible, horrific and inhuman persecution of the Jewish people.
I don't think you can pin that on "replacement theology".
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Old 16th May 2013, 08:50 PM
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It is Christian theology not replacement theology.

Teaching that the Church is the Israel of God is just plain old simple and direct Christian theology. It isn't about replacements. It is about identity.

The Church is the Israel of God (Gal 6:16) because Jesus is God's Son, Israel, whom he called out of Egypt (Matt 2:15) and because the Church is Christ's body (1Cor 12:27). United with him in death & resurrection through baptism (Romans 6:3-4).
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Old 16th May 2013, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cappadocious View Post
I don't think you can pin that on "replacement theology".
Its known documented factual history, it happened and yes it was due to hatred provoked by church doctrine that allowed it to happen. People turned a blind eye, deluded by propaganda and fear and madmen tortured and murderd while misusing doctrine. It’s called evil.
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Old 16th May 2013, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
Teaching that the Church is the Israel of God is just plain old simple and direct Christian theology. It isn't about replacements. It is about identity.

The Church is the Israel of God (Gal 6:16) because Jesus is God's Son, Israel, whom he called out of Egypt (Matt 2:15) and because the Church is Christ's body (1Cor 12:27). United with him in death & resurrection through baptism (Romans 6:3-4).
That’s not a problem but unfortunately it doesn’t stop there it practice it goes on to blame the Jewish people and curse the land of Israel.

The church has inherited the promises of Abraham by faith in Jesus Christ. However God has not forgotten his promises to his people or to the land. That is also scriptural. Replacement theology is unfortunately not just about the covenant to Christians it’s about denying God’s own word to his people. I’m not advocating a dual covenant, I’m simply acknowledging scripture and addressing how the theology has historicaly worked.
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Old 16th May 2013, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
Teaching that the Church is the Israel of God is just plain old simple and direct Christian theology. It isn't about replacements. It is about identity.

The Church is the Israel of God (Gal 6:16) because Jesus is God's Son, Israel, whom he called out of Egypt (Matt 2:15) and because the Church is Christ's body (1Cor 12:27). United with him in death & resurrection through baptism (Romans 6:3-4).
If Christians simply understood that in G-ds eyes a spiritual Israel consists of all blood-brought individuals, but that we have not replaced physical Israel or G-ds plans for the Jewish people in Israel, then there would be no real problem (although I don't hold with that exactly)...but the majority of RT that I have encountered, especially on these Boards fights tooth and claw to maintain an argument that physical Israel and the Jewish people mean nothing special in the heart of G-d, despite copious prophecies to the contrary....and they will insist that modern Israel has nothing to do with ancient Israel, the Jews are not really Jews, and the whole thing is a man-made attempt that is doomed to fail because they haven't believed in the Christianized Jesus, and when they say 'we are Israel'...they mean it quite literally, and not as in we are children of Abraham circumsized in our heart....thus children of Promise.

Besides as I understand things, plain old simple and direct Christian theology is not unanimous on their understanding concerning that one time phrase in Gal 6:6 which many believe talks of those who are Believing Jews, and not necessarily the Church per se.

Perhaps we might agree that both spiritual Israel and physical Israel are important to G-d for different reasons, and He is working His purposes out through both entities...not in some sort of dual Covenant program, but according to what He has revealed through the prophets...ultimately seeking that wild olive branches abide, and natural olives branches become re-grafted into their olive tree...if anything, that is a depiction of the Israel of G-d, and of all Israel being saved.
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Old 16th May 2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Habakk View Post
Thats not a problem but unfortunately it doesnt stop there it practice it goes on to blame the Jewish people and curse the land of Israel.

The church has inherited the promises of Abraham by faith in Jesus Christ. However God has not forgotten his promises to his people or to the land. That is also scriptural. Replacement theology is unfortunately not just about the covenant to Christians its about denying Gods own word to his people. Im not advocating a dual covenant, Im simply acknowledging scripture and addressing how the theology has historicaly worked.
Exactly how are you not advocating a dual covenant?

If, as I indicated, the Church is the Israel of God because she is Christ's body and because he is God's Son then where is there any room for another Israel of God under a covenant that excludes Jesus Christ?
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Old 16th May 2013, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeek View Post
If Christians simply understood that in G-ds eyes a spiritual Israel consists of all blood-brought individuals, but that we have not replaced physical Israel or G-ds plans for the Jewish people in Israel, then there would be no real problem (although I don't hold with that exactly)...but the majority of RT that I have encountered, especially on these Boards fights tooth and claw to maintain an argument that physical Israel and the Jewish people mean nothing special in the heart of G-d, despite copious prophecies to the contrary....and they will insist that modern Israel has nothing to do with ancient Israel, the Jews are not really Jews, and the whole thing is a man-made attempt that is doomed to fail because they haven't believed in the Christianized Jesus, and when they say 'we are Israel'...they mean it quite literally, and not as in we are children of Abraham circumsized in our heart....thus children of Promise.

Besides as I understand things, plain old simple and direct Christian theology is not unanimous on their understanding concerning that one time phrase in Gal 6:6 which many believe talks of those who are Believing Jews, and not necessarily the Church per se.

Perhaps we might agree that both spiritual Israel and physical Israel are important to G-d for different reasons, and He is working His purposes out through both entities...not in some sort of dual Covenant program, but according to what He has revealed through the prophets...ultimately seeking that wild olive branches abide, and natural olives branches become re-grafted into their olive tree...if anything, that is a depiction of the Israel of G-d, and of all Israel being saved.
People who have Jewish ancestry can expect inclusion in the covenant in Christ's blood on exactly the same basis as people who do not have Jewish ancestry.

Without faith it is impossible to please God.

The faith in question is faith in Jesus Christ as God's Christ and saviour.

People who have Jewish ancestry and who reject faith in Jesus Christ have exactly the same prospect of condemnation as people who do not have Jewish ancestry.

What matters is faith in Jesus Christ.

Ancestry without faith in Jesus Christ means nothing.
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