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  #1  
Unread 15th April 2013, 10:18 AM
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Where does our spirit go when we die?

Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, Today shall you be with me in paradise.

John 20:17
Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I have 3 questions:

1. How could the thief be in paradise with Jesus that same day if Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father in Heaven until much later after his resurrection?

2. Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection? If not with the Father, was He in paradise?

3. Is Heaven and Paradise two different places?
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Last edited by CoconutPrincess; 16th April 2013 at 07:22 AM.
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  #2  
Unread 15th April 2013, 02:01 PM
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1. the translation and the placement of the comma could be wrong. It could say: I say unto you today, you will be with me in paradise.
----> Though not everyone likes that idea, but honestly, if one thinks for a little bit they would understand that Jesus spent the next few days dead, and in Sheol (grave), and not in paradise. It should be clear enough, and we should not need these debates, but alas.

2. I think Jesus was in the tomb, dead, jk.lol. But Peter says he went down to sheol to preach to the souls and stuff like that, but it is mostly a mystery.

3. Yes, it seems Paradise and Heaven are the same, but when Christ comes again, He and His saints live on the New Earth, so like cool, or something.
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Unread 16th April 2013, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CoconutPrincess View Post
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, Today shall you be with me in paradise.

John 20:17
Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I have 3 questions:

1. How could the thief be in paradise with Jesus that same day if Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father in Heaven until much later after his resurrection?

2. Where was Jesus during between his death and resurrection? If not with the Father, was He in paradise?

3. Is Heaven and Paradise two different places?
Paradise:

par-ad'-i-sos
Of Oriental origin (compare [H6508]); a park, that is, (specifically) an Eden (place of future happiness, “paradise”): - paradise.

Paradise [N] [E] [S]

Persian loanword for "an area enclosed by a wall" or "garden." Its three uses in the Hebrew Bible ( Neh 2:8 ; Eccl 2:5 ; Sol 4:13 ) retain this meaning. The Septuagint uses the Greek paradeisos [paravdeiso"] for the garden of Eden in Genesis (called the "garden of God" in Isa 51:3 ; and Ezek 28:13 ).

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

I believe that paradise refers to the earth made new where there would be the Tree of Life and Eden would be restored.

The alternative is that paradise is the waiting place of the dead who are saved. So Paradise would be Abraham's Bosom. But Jesus did not go there when he died.

Mat 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

So unless Paradise or Abraham's Bosom is at the heart of the earth, Jesus did not go there.
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Unread 16th April 2013, 10:02 AM
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Through Biblical study, I have come to a personal conclusion that the New Jerusalem as described in the Book of Revelation is our "paraidse."

Notice how the Bible never says a human will go to [spiritual] Heaven, but rather, says "paradise" or "Kingdom". When God said he was preparing us a place in heaven, that could mean that he is making us in place, is in Heaven making it, and then will give it to us. New Jerusalem descends from Heaven prepared like a bride, so it must have been prepared in Heaven, right? New Jerusalem is God's eternal Kingdom. He will live in it for eternity. If we are to be with him, we must be where he is.
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Unread 17th April 2013, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CoconutPrincess View Post
Luke 23:43
And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, Today shall you be with me in paradise.

John 20:17
Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I have 3 questions:

1. How could the thief be in paradise with Jesus that same day if Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father in Heaven until much later after his resurrection?
This is up to where I can word my understanding at this time. I think my innermost self have understood a bit more but I cannot word them yet...

I think Luke 16:19-31 explains the place of the dead with two parts separated by a big chasm. One part is the place of torment and the other part is a place of rest(Abraham's bosom). It looks like it is in one place because they can talk to one another but there is a big chasm between them which they cannot cross over. So I would say that the thief was carried to Abraham's bosom.

I would say paradise is a place where there is the presence of God, (without suffering/torment). Note the...
1. Garden of eden (paradise by definition)
2. Abraham's Bosom (as what Jesus told the thief and by the consequent events).
3. In the third heaven. Paul's experience. Read in 2Cor 12:1-5
4. The tree of life is in the paradise of God, in new heaven and new earth... Read Rev ch2 & ch22.

2. Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection? If not with the Father, was He in paradise?
During the 3 days, Jesus went down to the place of the dead.

3. Is Heaven and Paradise two different places?
I would say paradise would be where God's presence is, a place governed entirely by God's presence.
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Unread 17th April 2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by trulyconverted View Post
This is up to where I can word my understanding at this time. I think my innermost self have understood a bit more but I cannot word them yet...

I think Luke 16:19-31 explains the place of the dead with two parts separated by a big chasm. One part is the place of torment and the other part is a place of rest(Abraham's bosom). It looks like it is in one place because they can talk to one another but there is a big chasm between them which they cannot cross over. So I would say that the thief was carried to Abraham's bosom.

I would say paradise is a place where there is the presence of God, (without suffering/torment). Note the...
1. Garden of eden (paradise by definition)
2. Abraham's Bosom (as what Jesus told the thief and by the consequent events).
3. In the third heaven. Paul's experience. Read in 2Cor 12:1-5
4. The tree of life is in the paradise of God, in new heaven and new earth... Read Rev ch2 & ch22.



During the 3 days, Jesus went down to the place of the dead.



I would say paradise would be where God's presence is, a place governed entirely by God's presence.
This sounds really contradictory. According to you Jesus went down to the place of the dead where God's presence is, and that place is paradise? Yet Jesus himself said he had ascended to his father. So are you really saying that Jesus descended to his father?
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Unread 17th April 2013, 10:17 AM
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I have 3 questions:

1. How could the thief be in paradise with Jesus that same day if Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father in Heaven until much later after his resurrection?

2. Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection? If not with the Father, was He in paradise?

3. Is Heaven and Paradise two different places?


1. Paradise is used in more than one sense...this passage speaks of sheol or Abraham's bosom, in others as the Garden of Eden (a small area on the earth eastward in Eden which covered from the Tigris Euphrates and encompassed the whole land of Ethiopia (what the Israelites understood as the land of Cush which is Africa), another usage is the future utopian new earth wherein is the New Jerusalem.

2. Yes, He went to Sheol/hades in the Greek,,,the thief was there the other thief was across the great gulf (see Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16)

3. Yes...right now (post Christ events) there is no one in the side where the righteous dead were held (but the Rich Man's side is full though their is no fellowship with others each being self lord of a kingdom of one). After Christ, all who have placed their trust in Him are with Him (Rev 7 the great uncountable multitude of every nation and tongue). To be absent fro the body is to be present with the Lord...thats my $.02

Paul
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Unread 17th April 2013, 04:20 PM
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1. How could the thief be in paradise with Jesus that same day if Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father in Heaven until much later after his resurrection?

Obviously Yeshua's Soul left His body for a while, His body was like an empty Shell.
His Soul went to see G-d So He could know what to do Next.

2. Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection? If not with the Father, was He in paradise?

G-d's Domain is Paradise or Heaven both are the same dimension.
And you must remember this, time and space are different in Heaven, Maybe Yeshua went there for an entire Year or more while on earth in only passed 3 days.
We don't know much about Heaven, though we know a lot about hell
We must not forget Yeshua (Jesus) went to the Sheol to preach and save Souls.
Peter 3:18–20


3. Is Heaven and Paradise two different places?

No. And depends on which context you're using it, Eden was considered a Paradise.
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Unread 17th April 2013, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Lordservent View Post
1. How could the thief be in paradise with Jesus that same day if Jesus hadn't ascended to the Father in Heaven until much later after his resurrection?
[color="Red"]Obviously Yeshua's Soul left His body for a while, His body was like an empty Shell.
His Soul went to see G-d So He could know what to do Next.
So when Jesus said he has not yet ascended to his father he was referring to his empty shell but the rest of him went? And to find out what to do next?????
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Unread 17th April 2013, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PROPHECYKID View Post
So when Jesus said he has not yet ascended to his father he was referring to his empty shell but the rest of him went? And to find out what to do next?????
His soul was not in His body, His body was empty for 3 days.
This is my theory and I believe so.
I ask forgiveness upon the Lord if I am wrong.
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