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  #41  
Old 14th May 2013, 08:49 AM
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Suicide in false religions has a more positive viewpoint, such as Hercules killing himself with fire and becoming a demiGod on Mt Olympus.
Death of Hercules - How Did the Hero Die?

The Hindu and Budhists suiciding in the fires which they frequently do to themselves. Seti, protests, wanting to be with dead gurus. All of this is Satanic inspiration resulting in death.
Anguished followers set themselves on fire in Bidar math - The Hindu

Jesus said Satan seeks to steal, kill, destroy. Jesus said He wants you to have life and more abundantly. Suicides are giving heed, listening to evil spirits and or are full of despair, schemed or planned by Satan or have come under judgement of God and still refuse to repent and are doomed to same destruction as ungodly persons.

Repentance | My Utmost For His Highest
If you feel the conviction of God in your life, then repent and believe the gospel which is good news intended for your salvation and not your destruction. If though you still refuse to repent and believe the truth of eternal life and become saved, by rejecting the ministry of the Holy Spirit in your life, you have left yourself wide open to the wiles and schemes of the devil. And by his nature, Satan is a liar and murderer will will do his best to touch you personally, ruin your life, make it a living hell and kill you.

Something to consider if you want to kill yourself
Matthew 10:28
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
For Christians only this applies
19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
If you commit suicide, you're not glorifying God in your body.

If you do, then you're just like the evil world around you.
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  #42  
Old 14th May 2013, 08:56 AM
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For those who think that suicide causes one to go to Hell - is that a Catholic view?
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  #43  
Old 14th May 2013, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MercyandFaith View Post
For those who think that suicide causes one to go to Hell - is that a Catholic view?
Ive ran across a lot of Catholics who do believe this. But R.C.ism is full of made up extraneous Doctrines which nullifies what the Bible says ; its because ManMade Tradition and whatever their Majesterioum says trumps The Bible (even though they would have us believe all three are 'equal authority') .
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  #44  
Old 14th May 2013, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by proverbswisdom View Post
As Christians we don't get to heaven by our works, so would suicide which is a bad "work" affect Christ's blood shed for us? I'm confused.



*As a Christians we don't get into heaven based upon our works--works can be either good or bad...our heavenly entrance is based on our position in Christ.

There are rewards given in heaven and there will be those who are rewarded
and there will be those who will lose reward(s) based upon what they did
in their life.

There are 5 crowns a believer can receive: The crown of life, the imperishable crown,
the crown of rejoicing, the crown of righteousness and the crown of glory.

Not ever Christian will get all those crowns and or all the rewards...it is based on
what each Christian did in this life after coming to faith.
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  #45  
Old 14th May 2013, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by BFine View Post


*As a Christians we don't get into heaven based upon our works--works can be either good or bad...our heavenly entrance is based on our position in Christ.
Totally true, if we are truly Chritians then we go to be with the Lord when we die. My view is people who commit suicide are not believers. Externally, you may have thought they were, but they were not born again.

I believe that God's calling is without repentance, and that He has chosen us according to foreknowledge for salvation. And that He then keeps His elect from committing suicide, as it says He prepares beforehand works for us to walk in. Suicide is self destruction, self murder, John wrote that no murderer has eternal life in them. Murderers can repent dead suicides never can.


By Grace Through Faith

2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.[b] 4 But[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because[g] the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[h] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
There is NO WAY that suicide fits into the plan of God for his elect. It would make no sense and goes against everything Jesus said about life for those who believe in Him.

This verse here says the Spirit INTERCEDES for the saints according to the will of the Father. This is saying something very profound with tremendous power. Meaning this, that God, if your one of the elect, will keep you from doing something that He has said is a sin unto death. There are 2 things that can never change, God is all powerful, and God can not lie. He can not and will not go against what He has already said and contradict Himself in His word.

'And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. 28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose
How could suicide ever work towards your good? It is impossible. For God's chosen people, it says ALL THINGS. God can not lie and God wont contradict Himself, God is all powerful and able to make you conform to the purposes of His will.


Jesus says about those who follow Him, they will have the light of life.


37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
Epesians
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,

To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:

2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Spiritual Blessings in Christ

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[c] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, 12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory. 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the guarantee[d] of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it,[e] to the praise of his glory.
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  #46  
Old 14th May 2013, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Totally true, if we are truly Chritians then we go to be with the Lord when we die. My view is people who commit suicide are not believers. Externally, you may have thought they were, but they were not born again.
Ah, well. Thank you for openly and generously admitting that this is your view and not the biblical view. How refreshing to see people actually admit that they could be very, very wrong about scripture!
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  #47  
Old 14th May 2013, 10:43 PM
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5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.

8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
The question about suicide you should answer is this.

Is suicide a cowardly act?

Is suicide the action of someone who is an over comer, a victorious act?

Is suicide motivated by unbelief of some type?

Is suicide murder?

If any or all are true, then you will not go to heaven if you murder yourself. It reads very clearly without any doubt. from God's lips to your ears, if you have ears to hear, which some of you dont.
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  #48  
Old 14th May 2013, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
Totally true, if we are truly Chritians then we go to be with the Lord when we die. My view is people who commit suicide are not believers. Externally, you may have thought they were, but they were not born again.

I believe that God's calling is without repentance, and that He has chosen us according to foreknowledge for salvation. And that He then keeps His elect from committing suicide, as it says He prepares beforehand works for us to walk in. Suicide is self destruction, self murder, John wrote that no murderer has eternal life in them. Murderers can repent dead suicides never can.
An interesting point. However, interpreting John's statements the way you do, and taking Jesus' comments into account (that being unreasonably angry at your brother is equivalent to being a murderer), that would mean that no one who has ever been angry at their brother or a fellow believer can go to heaven. Seems like there's not going to be many people there. Even the disciples got angry at each other, while discussing who would be greatest in heaven.




There is NO WAY that suicide fits into the plan of God for his elect. It would make no sense and goes against everything Jesus said about life for those who believe in Him.
Agreed

This verse here says the Spirit INTERCEDES for the saints according to the will of the Father. This is saying something very profound with tremendous power. Meaning this, that God, if your one of the elect, will keep you from doing something that He has said is a sin unto death. There are 2 things that can never change, God is all powerful, and God can not lie. He can not and will not go against what He has already said and contradict Himself in His word.
What you quote and your interpretation have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Jesus is at the Father's side, making intercession for us WHEN AND IF WE SIN. We all agree, I think, that suicide is a sin. But where in scripture does it say that this is one sin Jesus will NOT make intercession for?


How could suicide ever work towards your good? It is impossible. For God's chosen people, it says ALL THINGS. God can not lie and God wont contradict Himself, God is all powerful and able to make you conform to the purposes of His will.


Jesus says about those who follow Him, they will have the light of life.
No, Jesus never said that our lights would shine 24/7. In fact, He encouraged them to not put a basket over our lights (which He wouldn't have done if it never happened). Some people's lights are pretty dim.

In a perfect world, our lights would shine all the time, and we would never get down, or depressed, and never go through anything that tore up our emotions so bad that suicide would look like a solution. But we don't live in a perfect world, and crap happens.

Jesus is the Lord of mercy. That's all I have to say.
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  #49  
Old 14th May 2013, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by sdowney717 View Post
The question about suicide you should answer is this.

Is suicide a cowardly act?

Is suicide the action of someone who is an over comer, a victorious act?

Is suicide motivated by unbelief of some type?

Is suicide murder?

If any or all are true, then you will not go to heaven if you murder yourself. It reads very clearly without any doubt. from God's lips to your ears, if you have ears to hear, which some of you dont.
Have you ever gotten angry at someone and later realized you were wrong? Read Matthew 5:21 and following - you are a murderer.
Read Matthew 5:22 Have you ever called someone a fool? You are in danger of hell fire.

Read Matthew 5:28 Have you ever looked at someone with lust? Then you are guilty of adultery, whoremongering. You're going to hell. Unless, of course, you plucked out your eye.

Look at you now, judging those who despair to the point of suicide. read Matthew chapter 7.

In the first chapter of Romans, Paul lists the horrible sins of man - one of which is disobeying parents. Have you ever disobeyed your parents? Oops, off to hell for you.

Do you see how you can pick out isolated scripture and make it sound like you want it to? You can't to that. You have to take scripture as a whole, and as a whole, the lists of sinful mankind that you keep listing are directed to unregenerate man, not to believers who have fallen down and sinned.



Paul says in Romans ch. 8 that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ. Our sins, past present and future are forgiven.

No one can be sure about this. But I read over and over again in the Bible that we are to love our neighbors, love one another, they will know you are Christ's followers by their love. We need to be more conscience of how our posts affect others.
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  #50  
Old 14th May 2013, 11:36 PM
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People have said this before and I'm blind posting: we don't know. There's a chance that suicides do go to Hell, but there's also a possibility that they can go to Heaven.

People who kill themselves are usually mentally ill or they are at a place, a dark tunnel, and cannot find a way out and end up taking their lives.

"Why not just talk to God and ask him to take it away?" is a common question that my old therapist had brought up when I expressed my suicidal feelings, when in reality, even at that point, it's so hard to even think that there's a god out there and if he existed, why is there suffering, why you? It's not fair.

Thing is, if you're suicidal, go talk to someone. Seek professional help, they can help you work through these suicidal feelings. Don't leave people here, alone, wondering why and constantly blaming themselves.
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