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  #1  
Unread 25th January 2013, 09:59 PM
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Question Why did God afflict Job?

I can really relate to Job in the Bible. He goes through a great deal. However, I would like to know why God afflicts Job and why he does the same today. Even if we blame the devil, God still authorized Satan to attack Job. So how do we make sense of this, in light of Word of Faith teachings?
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Unread 25th January 2013, 10:53 PM
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Could you please provide the actual quote that says God afflicted Job? It's not in my Bible that I can see. It says Satan afflicted Job.
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Unread 25th January 2013, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jamadan View Post
Could you please provide the actual quote that says God afflicted Job? It's not in my Bible that I can see. It says Satan afflicted Job.
Certainly.

God himself says,

'And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

The text here (Job 2:3) actually has God himself saying that Satan made God attack Job. Satan was able to persuade God to let him sift him like wheat. That's a scary thought.

Both times, also, we see that Satan was given PERMISSION BY GOD to afflict Job. That is no different than a mob boss sending out a hitman to kill someone. Ok, maybe the mob boss did not pull the trigger, but he still authorized the killing. If God gave permission to Satan, then he effectively did it to Job.

This is further seen in Job 42:11, when the bible says,

'Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the Lord had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.'

Job himself even said that we receive both good and evil from the hand of God. (Job 2:10)

'But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.'

Notice, Job did not sin by saying that.
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Unread 26th January 2013, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by simply christian View Post
'And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

The text here (Job 2:3) actually has God himself saying that Satan made God attack Job. Satan was able to persuade God to let him sift him like wheat. That's a scary thought.
Yes, a scary thought indeed. Satan MADE God attack Job?

Well, there went sovereignty right out the window.



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Unread 26th January 2013, 12:52 AM
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I struggle with Job. I'll leave it at that.
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Unread 26th January 2013, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by ABlessedMan View Post
Yes, a scary thought indeed. Satan MADE God attack Job?

Well, there went sovereignty right out the window.
Yes, unless it was God's design to simply use Satan as his means to afflict Job, which is debatable. You will notice I did not mention the word "Sovereignty" of God.

All this text tells me is that God was more than happy to oblige Satan's request, which means Satan can tell God what to do. That is a frightening thought. God is at Satan's behest?
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Unread 26th January 2013, 02:59 AM
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"I can really relate to Job in the Bible. He goes through a great deal. However, I would like to know why God afflicts Job and why he does the same today.

there were two PERSONAL PROBLEMS that Job had, and God's PROCESS as described in the Book was designed to cause them to surface so that Job could repent of them:

BEhemoth - Job's tendency to Do thing in HIS OWN strength, independent of God.

And Leviathan - Job's personal issue with self pride.

"Even if we blame the devil, God still authorized Satan to attack Job."

Why would we "blame the devil"?? it's perfectly obvious that God STARTED the process, and Controlled it all the way through to its successful conclusion (Job's repentence in Chapter 42).

"So how do we make sense of this, in light of Word of Faith teachings?"

Simple - you don't pay any attention to "Word of faith teachings" which always throw the blame for problems on the "Victim".

Bottom line - we're being CONFORMED to Jesus' Image in the life process (romans 8:28-30), and God will HURT US TERRIBLY when our situation requires it - but He will NEVER "Harm us", and we'll come out of the "mill" better than we went in.
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Unread 26th January 2013, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Carabbio View Post

"So how do we make sense of this, in light of Word of Faith teachings?"

Simple - you don't pay any attention to "Word of faith teachings" which always throw the blame for problems on the "Victim".
Funny that you would fall into the same pit that Job fell into, you are trying to blame God for everything to make you look good (or the innocent Party)

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job was condemning God to make him look good or blaming God when Job was really to blame...

Prov. 26:2 so the curse causeless shall not alight

Prov. 3:33 The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.
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Unread 26th January 2013, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by simply christian View Post
Yes, unless it was God's design to simply use Satan as his means to afflict Job, which is debatable. You will notice I did not mention the word "Sovereignty" of God.
You may not have "mentioned" it, but it was written all over the text. God is sovereign and God is omnipotent. Satan cannot manipulate Him.

Further, God using Satan as His "means" is synonymous to this:
Matthew 12:25-26
But Jesus knew their thoughts, and said to them: “Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then will his kingdom stand?
God is perfection; perfect Love, perfect Holiness. He does not have a need to use evil to further His divine Will. Do you not think that the God of all existence doesn't have means to have His will enacted without using some means that is less than holy? Mighty human of you.

Originally Posted by simply christian View Post
All this text tells me is that God was more than happy to oblige Satan's request, which means Satan can tell God what to do. That is a frightening thought. God is at Satan's behest?
Let me assume for just one second (for that is all my senses can take of this abhorrant thought) that you interpretation of Job 2:3 is correct: I don't see God's "happiness" in being moved in this way.

No. We have several things at work here. One is free will -- both Job's and Satan's. What you take as God either ordering or offering Satan opportunity I see simply as God referring to his free will to attempt to come against Job. The earth is the domain of man; God put us here and gave us dominion over all that is here, to rule over, to subdue, to tend and keep. See Psalm 82:6 -- we have been told to judge and to rule (we are called elohim).

God gave us an offer:
Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
Free will. We choose. We can choose blessing or we can choose the curse. (God gives a big hint here: choose Life!)

But Job stepped out of the blessing when he chose to fear and wander within his own sacrifices to protect his own, instead of trusting God. Note that this did not change his "standing" with God -- God still loved him and considered him a righteous man -- but Job stepped out of the blessing and into the curse:
Job 1:10-12
Have You not made a hedge around him, around his household, and around all that he has on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. 11 But now, stretch out Your hand and touch all that he has, and he will surely curse You to Your face!”
12 And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power;
Job has a hedge around him. He stands in the blessing and the results are spoken of her: increase, what he touches is blessed, etc. Satan tries to get God to curse Job, but God simply says to Satan: you have the ability already to touch his stuff....

Why? Because Job chose to fear, he recalls it here:
Job 3:25
For the thing I greatly feared has come upon me,
And what I dreaded has happened to me.
We see very early that Job has taken things into his own hands because he thinks that his children may be sinning, revelling, drinking:
Job 1:5
5 So it was, when the days of feasting had run their course, that Job would send and sanctify them, and he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did regularly.
The fact that Job would want to sancify them and make offerings according to the Lord's commandments is not necessarily the issue, but Job feared that the curse would touch him, he dreaded what would happen. And in so doing, he stepped out of his trust of the Lord and into the curse. He called these things upon himself; he opened the door (the hedge) for Satan to touch him.

It is too easy to look at Job and come to a conclusion that God did this, and then to extrapolate that into God must be cause of my own problems. He must have a reason to have done this to me, just as He had a reason to have done that to Job.

But God didn't "do" anything to Job. Unless if you want to say that simply because God gave man dominion and rule and choice that God is causal to the choices that man makes. But that would be disengenuous.

Job had free will. He chose the curse. That opened a door for Satan; God simply recorded in scripture that this was the case. Job dropped his protection (see Ps 91 for instance). Satan touched him and his family and his stuff. Satan comes to steal, to kill and to destroy.

God is Love. And He is holy and nothing evil is in Him nor with Him (nor in His use).
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Unread 26th January 2013, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by PastorMike View Post
Funny that you would fall into the same pit that Job fell into, you are trying to blame God for everything to make you look good (or the innocent Party)

Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?

Job was condemning God to make him look good or blaming God when Job was really to blame...

Prov. 26:2 so the curse causeless shall not alight

Prov. 3:33 The curse of the LORD is in the house of the wicked: but he blesseth the habitation of the just.
Amen.
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