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  #111  
Unread 15th January 2013, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Zoness View Post
Luckily for homosexuals (and many others), the Catholic church is no longer the dominant institution in western civilization anymore.
I was reading the wiki page for the history of same sex marriage in Rhode Island and it says the following about support from Catholics:

"An independent May 2009 poll conducted by Brown University showed that 60% of Rhode Islanders supported legalizing same-sex marriage, while 31% opposed doing so"...

"Forty-three percent of Rhode Islanders are Catholic, and one survey showed that 63% of Catholics supported same-sex marriage provided it did not infringe on the church's right to choose whom it marries".

Things are looking pretty good there. It seems the Catholic Church is far more conservative than American Catholics.
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  #112  
Unread 16th January 2013, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by awitch View Post
I was reading the wiki page for the history of same sex marriage in Rhode Island and it says the following about support from Catholics:

"An independent May 2009 poll conducted by Brown University showed that 60% of Rhode Islanders supported legalizing same-sex marriage, while 31% opposed doing so"...

"Forty-three percent of Rhode Islanders are Catholic, and one survey showed that 63% of Catholics supported same-sex marriage provided it did not infringe on the church's right to choose whom it marries".

Things are looking pretty good there. It seems the Catholic Church is far more conservative than American Catholics.
Interesting statistic but not overly surprising. American Catholics generally are pretty lax because its mostly a cultural thing. My parents consider themselves Catholic but would laugh if I had asked them about some positions that the church holds.
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  #113  
Unread 24th January 2013, 01:29 PM
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The Rhode Island Judicial House Committee voted unanimously to move a bill recognizing same sex marriage to the House floor last Tuesday. It looks like the full House will vote today.

Meanwhile, American Evangelicals continue to push LGBT animus in Uganda (See the "Kill the Gays" bill, now renamed to "Life Imprisonment for Gays" bill) and are supportive of Russia and the Ukraine's recent criminalization of advocating homosexuality in any way - to the point of arresting 17 people for wearing rainbow suspenders.
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  #114  
Unread 24th January 2013, 03:27 PM
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You'll have to explain how "American Evangelicals" are responsible for legislation in Uganda. So far, I'm not buying it. As much as we get accused of it, we (as a Nation) haven't built an Empire, and despite wielding considerable influence abroad, we don't really write laws for other Countries. As far as I know.

If it turns out that some extreme zealots in Africa act like ... extreme zealots? While nothing new this is of course sickening news, despite the fact that some might consider life imprisonment to be somehow better than the death sentence. (I know I sure wouldn't)

Now I want to hear you belly ache about how US Christians want to "deprive gays of equal rights." No we don't. There's no such persecution here. Those that gay bash can be prosecuted, and sentenced more harshly than if the same violence were perpetrated upon someone else for other reasons. This kinda puts things in perspective.
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  #115  
Unread 24th January 2013, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by seeking Christ View Post
You'll have to explain how "American Evangelicals" are responsible for legislation in Uganda.
Uganda's government is responsible for the legislation, but American Evangelicals (not all of them, obviously) encourage it. Scott Lively has bragged that he is known as the "father of the anti-gay movement" there, for example.

Now I want to hear you belly ache about how US Christians want to "deprive gays of equal rights." No we don't.
NOM, AFA, FRC,...hey you asked for it.

There's no such persecution here.
No, now they're bullied into suicide and legislation is pushed to excuse bullying if it's done out of a sincere religious belief.

Those that gay bash can be prosecuted, and sentenced more harshly than if the same violence were perpetrated upon someone else for other reasons. This kinda puts things in perspective.
No I'm pretty sure it's just an expansion of the same laws covers religion, age, gender, and ethnic discrimination.
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  #116  
Unread 24th January 2013, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by awitch View Post
Uganda's government is responsible for the legislation, but American Evangelicals (not all of them, obviously) encourage it. Scott Lively has bragged that he is known as the "father of the anti-gay movement" there, for example.
Ok, so your rather sweeping generalization needs to be revised. How 'bout, some American Evangelicals that had to flee the US for Africa because no one would tolerate them here found a safe haven in a war torn Country and are assisting those wreaking havoc upon any semblance of justice?


Originally Posted by awitch View Post
NOM, AFA, FRC,...hey you asked for it.

No, now they're bullied into suicide and legislation is pushed to excuse bullying if it's done out of a sincere religious belief.
You honestly have left me with no idea what you're talking about. what precisely is being "pushed" that can line up with this description?

Originally Posted by awitch View Post
No I'm pretty sure it's just an expansion of the same laws covers religion, age, gender, and ethnic discrimination.
Hate crime laws are written specifically to offer protection to homosexuals from gay bashing. Not exclusively to that end, but with that in view among other things. I don't understand why you're trying to minimize that.
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  #117  
Unread 24th January 2013, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by seeking Christ View Post
Ok, so your rather sweeping generalization needs to be revised. How 'bout, some American Evangelicals that had to flee the US for Africa because no one would tolerate them here found a safe haven in a war torn Country and are assisting those wreaking havoc upon any semblance of justice?

You missed the part where I said, " (not all of them, obviously)"?
Some Evangelicals do very praiseworthy work securing water, transportation, medical aid, etc over there. I'm not accusing all Christians in any way.

You honestly have left me with no idea what you're talking about. what precisely is being "pushed" that can line up with this description?
Laws in Michigan and other states were proposed that would essentially excuse bullying if it was due to sincere religious belief. Such laws were in response to a trend of young people committing suicide after being bullied for being gay or being perceived to be gay.

Hate crime laws are written specifically to offer protection to homosexuals from gay bashing. Not exclusively to that end, but with that in view among other things. I don't understand why you're trying to minimize that.
I'll examine it if you can cite a specific law. No one is being prosecuted for publicly advertising open hatred for gays. Religious right groups routinely refer to them as Satanic, demonically possessed, savage, barbarians, diseased, pedophiles, etc.
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  #118  
Unread 24th January 2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by awitch View Post
I'll examine it if you can cite a specific law. No one is being prosecuted for publicly advertising open hatred for gays. Religious right groups routinely refer to them as Satanic, demonically possessed, savage, barbarians, diseased, pedophiles, etc.
But of course what they say goes! Christianity is still the de facto cultural norm in the US and has an incredible amount of influence. Christians who say the US is persecuting them are just mad that they feel they are losing that stranglehold control over culture.

That said, many Christians are people who do not think gays are disease ridden pedophiles. I am curious how the numbers compare but I think this debate is headed the way of interracial dating debates of the past.

People are going to look back and facepalm, some groups might even be incredibly embarrassed by it. It will kind of be like Bob Jones apologizing for banning interracial dating, even though they didn't do it until decades after most organizations lifted the ban, its the thought that counts.....right?

Bob Jones University Apologizes for Its Racist Past

From the article:
In 2000 the university ended its official prohibition against interracial dating. Now eight years later, the university has admitted that its policies were wrong.
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  #119  
Unread 24th January 2013, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Zoness View Post
That said, many Christians are people who do not think gays are disease ridden pedophiles.
I honestly do not understand how people come to that conclusion in the first place.
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  #120  
Unread 24th January 2013, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by awitch View Post
I'll examine it if you can cite a specific law. No one is being prosecuted for publicly advertising open hatred for gays. Religious right groups routinely refer to them as Satanic, demonically possessed, savage, barbarians, diseased, pedophiles, etc.
That's not hate crime; no violence is committed. You want to do away with the right to free speech now?
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