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  #31  
Old 31st December 2012, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by AP26 View Post
Henry Morris
Richard Wurmbrand

I've did a lot of background searching on Marx and he was quite the suspicious character.

You can make whatever conclusions about me you want, I could care less.
If you have not actually read any Marx, just say so. I ask again: how much Marx have you read? Even a little bit is fine.
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  #32  
Old 31st December 2012, 12:36 AM
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In his life Marx was a dead beat dad, a poser, a liar, an ungrateful son, an unfaithful husband. Two of his children starved to death because he thought he was too good for work. He was lazy, phony and disliked by virtually all who knew him. He was rash, offensive and completely egotistical. If not for his parents, his wife's parents and Engels, he would have starved. He died relatively unknown. His work was misused, even by his standards.

Marx lived for ten years in London at the same time as a truly great thinker on the very same subjects, John Stuart Mill.

When you get your fill of Marx's folly, read "On Liberty" by J.S. Mill.

Marx was a bum who couldn't even hold a job. It's no wonder that those who employed his economics set into motion some of histories worst episodes. If you want to build a nation of nonworking bums, employ Marxism.
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  #33  
Old 31st December 2012, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bricklayer View Post
In his life Marx was a dead beat dad, a poser, a liar, an ungrateful son, an unfaithful husband. Two of his children starved to death because he thought he was too good for work. He was lazy, phony and disliked by virtually all who knew him. He was rash, offensive and completely egotistical. If not for his parents, his wife's parents and Engels, he would have starved. He died relatively unknown. His work was misused, even by his standards.

Marx lived for ten years in London at the same time as a truly great thinker on the very same subjects, John Stuart Mill.

When you get your fill of Marx's folly, read "On Liberty" by J.S. Mill.

Marx was a bum who couldn't even hold a job. It's no wonder that those who employed his economics set into motion some of histories worst episodes. If you want to build a nation of nonworking bums, employ Marxism.
Not seeing anything there that shows how his ideas are wrong. Just character assassination.

Funny that you can admit his work was misused even while recommending tall tales about evolution, Marx and Nimrod.
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  #34  
Old 31st December 2012, 12:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gadarene View Post
Not seeing anything there that shows how his ideas are wrong. Just character assassination.

Funny that you can admit his work was misused even while recommending tall tales about evolution, Marx and Nimrod.
Not quite sue Marx was wrong?
There are millions of starved, tortured and broken people and broken nations that prove Marx was wrong. Every time his ideas are employed the results are horrific.
Marx's ideas have the body count that proves them wrong.

Marx's ideas come down to - From each according to their ability to each according to their needs. This has proved to be among the very worst ways to organize a society.
Mill's ideas come down to - from each according to their will to each according to their ability. This has proved to be the least worst way to organize a society.
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  #35  
Old 31st December 2012, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by bricklayer View Post
In his life Marx was a dead beat dad, a poser, a liar, an ungrateful son, an unfaithful husband. Two of his children starved to death because he thought he was too good for work. He was lazy, phony and disliked by virtually all who knew him. He was rash, offensive and completely egotistical. If not for his parents, his wife's parents and Engels, he would have starved. He died relatively unknown. His work was misused, even by his standards.
Even if all this stuff about his personality is true - and that is far from established - it has basically nothing to do with Marxism as an analytic tool. Marx was not some infallible prophet or perfect man.

Marx lived for ten years in London at the same time as a truly great thinker on the very same subjects, John Stuart Mill.

When you get your fill of Marx's folly, read "On Liberty" by J.S. Mill.
You never struck me as an empiricist or a utilitarian like your man Mill. Who knew?

Marx was a bum who couldn't even hold a job. It's no wonder that those who employed his economics set into motion some of histories worst episodes. If you want to build a nation of nonworking bums, employ Marxism.


I'm going to assume that was his "amused" face.
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  #36  
Old 31st December 2012, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Redac View Post
You never struck me as an empiricist or a utilitarian like your man Mill. Who knew?.
Heck, as a utilitarian I'd love to know about these utilitarian societies we've tried out. I'd love to know where they even exist, I seem to be stuck in ones where things with no viable utilitarian objections like gay marriage are still illegal and held in place by traditionalism and religious privilege.
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  #37  
Old 31st December 2012, 01:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bricklayer View Post
Not quite sue Marx was wrong?
There are millions of starved, tortured and broken people and broken nations that prove Marx was wrong. Every time his ideas are employed the results are horrific.
Marx's ideas have the body count that proves them wrong.
If we're just counting bodies and messed-up nations, I'll see your Soviet bloc (mostly Stalin and his ilk, not Marx, btw) and raise you sub-Saharan Africa after the imperial powers decided they'd had enough and left. So much for capitalism, huh?

Marx's ideas come down to - From each according to their ability to each according to their needs. This has proved to be among the very worst ways to organize a society.
Mill's ideas come down to - from each according to their will to each according to their ability. This has proved to be the least worst way to organize a society.
[citation needed]
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  #38  
Old 31st December 2012, 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Redac View Post

[citation needed]
"Communist Manifesto" and "On Libetry"
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  #39  
Old 31st December 2012, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bricklayer View Post
"Communist Manifesto" and "On Libetry"
All this tells me is that you've never read the Communist Manifesto, and probably never read any Marx. The "to each" quote comes from Marx's Critique of the Gotha Program, written in 1875.

If you're gonna talk about Marxism the way you are, it would behoove you to at least get your stuff straight.
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  #40  
Old 31st December 2012, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Redac View Post
All this tells me is that you've never read the Communist Manifesto, and probably never read any Marx. The "to each" quote comes from Marx's Critique of the Gotha Program, written in 1875.

If you're gonna talk about Marxism the way you are, it would behoove you to at least get your stuff straight.
The "to each" idea comes much earlier. When he phrased it that way is irrelevant. Mill never quite put it the way I wrote it either. The bottom line is that Marx is dead wrong and Mill is right on.
Marxism does not work because there is in it no accommodation for incentive.
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