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  #1  
Unread 28th December 2012, 11:05 AM
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The Witness of the Apostles Refutes Calvinism, Predestinationism

<edit>
The apostles did not teach predestination. There is not one scripture in the Bible that says God has pre-determined who is saved and who is lost. What it does say is... "Whosoever that calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved," Romans 10:13.

The apostle Paul spent over 15 years of his life and traveled over 10,000 miles on foot, by donkey, by boat, to take the Gospel to the heathen Gentiles that had never even heard about Jesus. You would have much trouble convincing Paul that all of his effort to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ was for nothing because God had already pre-determined who would be saved and who would be lost.

The book of Acts and the epistles describe Paul's three missionary journeys around the north shore of the Mediterranean Sea. If God had not been with Paul and the other apostles they would have perished. Paul and the other apostles were beaten, stoned, threatened and at one time were left for dead.

All of the apostles except for John died violent deaths for the sake of the Gospel. None of them believed that they had been predestinated to salvation. They believed like Paul that salvation was by grace through through faith to all who called upon the name of the Lord to be saved.

If they believed that predestination was the way people were saved, why go out into the world and risk your neck for some heathen Gentile, after all God had already pre-determined who was going to be saved and who was going to be lost. "let's just stay here in Jerusalem where it is warm and comfy, God will saved them."

Last edited by Criada; 5th January 2013 at 04:58 PM. Reason: staff edit
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  #2  
Unread 28th December 2012, 11:45 AM
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Rofl.
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"Do not think Christians are made by education葉hey are made by creation. You may wash a corpse as long as ever you please, but you cannot wash life into it. You may deck it in flowers and robe it in scarlet and fine linen, but you cannot make it live葉he vital spark must come from above." - Charles Spurgeon
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Unread 28th December 2012, 12:37 PM
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LUKE: When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.
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Unread 28th December 2012, 12:42 PM
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<edit>
George Whitefield, the most prominent evangelist of the First Great awakening was a Calvinist.

Belief that predestination removes the need for evangelism is a lie of Satan, but it is not a lie that is taught or endorsed by Calvinists. It is a lie often attributed to Calvinists by non-Calvinists sadly.

Last edited by Criada; 5th January 2013 at 05:01 PM. Reason: removed quote of edited post.
  #5  
Unread 28th December 2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by drstevej View Post
George Whitefield, the most prominent evangelist of the First Great awakening was a Calvinist.

Belief that predestination removes the need for evangelism is a lie of Satan, but it is not a lie that is taught or endorsed by Calvinists. It is a lie often attributed to Calvinists by non-Calvinists sadly.
Evangelism is the tool, the means that God uses to visit His elect with the gospel and bring them to salvation. The elect aren't just saved willy nilly without the gospel message and without coming to faith and repentance.

Paul said that endured all things so the elect could be saved

2Ti_2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

The Calvinist evangelist has every comfort that his efforts will not be in vain. God will, without fail, save 100% of every single person he intends to save through our evangelistic efforts.

It is the synergist that has no assurance that his work is accomplishing anything. How you could sleep at night knowing that if you had only worded your gospel presentation slightly differently to make it more palatable to men, more sinners might have gotten saved, is beyond me.

The Calvinist has no such fear. He plants the seed, and knows that God will give the increase.
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  #6  
Unread 28th December 2012, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by drstevej View Post
Dort does not say this. Yet another strawman.
It most certainly does.

Canons of Dort

see FIRST HEAD: ARTICLE 7.
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Unread 28th December 2012, 02:27 PM
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THIRD AND FOURTH HEAD: ARTICLE 11. But when God accomplishes His good pleasure in the elect, or works in them true conversion, He not only cause the gospel to be externally preached to them, and powerfully illuminates their minds by His Holy Spirit, that they may rightly under and discern the things of the Spirit of God; but by the efficacy of the same regenerating Spirit He pervades the inmost recesses of man; He opens the closed and softens the hardened heart, and circumcises that which was uncircumcised; infuses new qualities into the will, which, though heretofore dead, He quickens; from being evil, disobedient, and refractory, He renders it good, obedient, and pliable; actuates and strengthens it, that like a good tree, it may bring forth the fruits of good actions.
  #8  
Unread 28th December 2012, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by drstevej View Post
THIRD AND FOURTH HEAD: ARTICLE 11. But when God accomplishes His good pleasure in the elect, or works in them true conversion, He not only cause the gospel to be externally preached to them, and powerfully illuminates their minds by His Holy Spirit, that they may rightly under and discern the things of the Spirit of God; but by the efficacy of the same regenerating Spirit He pervades the inmost recesses of man; He opens the closed and softens the hardened heart, and circumcises that which was uncircumcised; infuses new qualities into the will, which, though heretofore dead, He quickens; from being evil, disobedient, and refractory, He renders it good, obedient, and pliable; actuates and strengthens it, that like a good tree, it may bring forth the fruits of good actions.


Sure, why not illuminate them they are already saved? So they say.

There is a problem with that though. They still do not believe that Jesus is the savior of the world. Not much illumination.
  #9  
Unread 28th December 2012, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
That is not the message of the Synod of Dordchester.

They declare that God has already chosen "A certain number of persons to redemption in Christ."

Nothing needs to be worked out.
He has chosen people to redeem. But he still has to redeem them.

I'm sorry you are unable to do anything other than draw non sequitures. but I will pray for you.
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"Do not think Christians are made by education葉hey are made by creation. You may wash a corpse as long as ever you please, but you cannot wash life into it. You may deck it in flowers and robe it in scarlet and fine linen, but you cannot make it live葉he vital spark must come from above." - Charles Spurgeon
  #10  
Unread 28th December 2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
Sure, why not illuminate them they are already saved? So they say.

There is a problem with that though. They still do not believe that Jesus is the savior of the world. Not much illumination.
You should probably stop equating election with justification.

The two are not synonymous.

Election happened in eternity past. Justification happens in time when we believe in Christ. This is true of both Calvinism and non-Calvinism. It's almost like you keep forgetting that even synergists believe in election. Even synergists believe that God chose the elect before the foundation of the world.

When you guys make silly arguments against Calvinism pertaining to election, you are equally arguing against your own position without realizing it. Personally, I get a chuckle out of this.
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"What God requires of us he himself works in us, or it is not done. He that commands faith, holiness, and love, creates them by the power of his grace..." - Matthew Henry

"Do not think Christians are made by education葉hey are made by creation. You may wash a corpse as long as ever you please, but you cannot wash life into it. You may deck it in flowers and robe it in scarlet and fine linen, but you cannot make it live葉he vital spark must come from above." - Charles Spurgeon
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