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  #21  
Unread 13th December 2012, 01:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Big Fudge View Post
Are there any records of the Orthodox population in the Colonial and Revolutionary era? I always thought the first Orthodox Christians in America crossed over into Alaska from Russia.
OrthodoxHistory.org » Orthodoxy in Colonial Virginia
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  #22  
Unread 13th December 2012, 03:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikhael The Archangel View Post
I'm not saying that I believe they meant Protestant and only Protestant, but that one could be a Protestant without fear of persecution, or of course Catholic. I don't think their intentions were to allow Islam, paganism, etc.
Not accurate. Their big concern was that Congress should NOT recognize any religion as a state religion, ie Church of England, which was protestant. In their ardor for that NOT to happen, they cleared the way for all religions.
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  #23  
Unread 13th December 2012, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Mikhael The Archangel View Post
I have always believed that when our founders said "freedom of religion" that they really meant freedom to be Protestant. Of course I could be completely wrong, but that's the way I view it. I don't think they meant freedom to be Muslim and such.

I think most historians would agree that in the late 1700's it would have been impossible to build a mosque on US territory.
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  #24  
Unread 13th December 2012, 04:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RKO View Post
Given the choice, would you want to live in a country that conformed all of its laws in line with the Orthodox church? If you are of another religion, same question, but insert your own in place of orthodox.

As others have pointed out thats a broad question. Of course there was a time when this country or many parts of it conformed to general christian morality. In f act some of those laws would be considered extreme in an Orthodox theocracy, such as 'dry' counties where restrictions are placed on alcohol. Instead of advocating for gay marriage most likely in an Orthodox country there would be no civil marriages whatsoever. By the latter half of the empire civil marriage was simply filing a paper saying who would inherit what if there are no children. It was strictly a religious ceremony, this continued through the Ottomon Empire and still is the system in place in Palestine.

If all the laws conformed to Orthodoxy it probably would be a monarchy, that would still retain an element of secularism. Thats one of the symbolic meanings of the double headed eagle found on churches and on Orthodox flags. The government and church are still two seperate factions but occupy the same house and work synergistically. An Orthodox theocracy would be a mild one, as government and church are to remain autonomous and distinct according to Orthodox understanding.

Yes a porn magazine would be considered contraband (but thats not a certainty), foreign missionary work and proselytising would be illegal, certain businesses in the realm of entertainment would need to close on certain feast days. Abortion would be illegal, beauty pageants would probably cease, but depending on the area topless beaches would remain but not full nude ones. In addition the state would promote incentives for people to work out their salvation in accordance to Orthodox principles.

It will not resemble Taliban nor Iran for that matter (unless you think thats what Russia resembled under the romanovs).

Last edited by buzuxi02; 13th December 2012 at 04:39 AM.
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  #25  
Unread 13th December 2012, 10:23 AM
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I think in practice, laws can't actually force a population to do anything - take prohibition for example. Laws in general are a reflection of popular culture and social norms as they already exist. Very few laws are truly groundbreaking in that they drive social reform, especially moralistic laws. The laws almost always follow the social reform, not the other way around. Back to OP, would like to live in a country governed by a truly Orthodox ethos in it's population, where the laws of land were a reflection of the faith...of course, but I know that will never happen until the Kingdom.
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  #26  
Unread 13th December 2012, 11:55 AM
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to add my two cents to the original post. personally, I gotta agree not to legislate morality, unless it happens to harm another person (ie abortion). ideally, everyone in America would be an Orthodox Christian because they choose to be, not because the government forces them to be.
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  #27  
Unread 13th December 2012, 01:55 PM
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I would be concerned in general that nations where government is strongly tied to religion aren't all that sucessful in governing well, historically. They tend to run to abuse and corruption in the Church and in government.

An interesting thing though IMO is the nation of Bhutan. Not perfect by any means, but they seem to have somewhat successfully integrated religion into their political institutions, compared to some of the other examples I know of.

However, they are quite a small place and relatively culturally and religiously homogeneous. But it would be interesting to consider their approach.
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  #28  
Unread 13th December 2012, 01:58 PM
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We as Orthodox Christians believe so strongly in each person's free will before God that I think it's hard for us to even think of trying to legislate something that must come from each person's heart.

I also think that anytime the Church is entwined with government, it becomes seen as part of the "establishment" and the sins of the government are seen as the sins of the Church. I think we can see that every where there has been/is an Establishment Church. People who want to rebel against their government, for whatever reason, will also rebel against the Church. The Church should never be in a position of secular power.

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  #29  
Unread 13th December 2012, 02:08 PM
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There isn't a day that goes by where I don't wake up thinking, "why can't we be more like Bhutan?"

Originally Posted by MKJ View Post
I would be concerned in general that nations where government is strongly tied to religion aren't all that sucessful in governing well, historically. They tend to run to abuse and corruption in the Church and in government.

An interesting thing though IMO is the nation of Bhutan. Not perfect by any means, but they seem to have somewhat successfully integrated religion into their political institutions, compared to some of the other examples I know of.

However, they are quite a small place and relatively culturally and religiously homogeneous. But it would be interesting to consider their approach.
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  #30  
Unread 16th December 2012, 08:13 AM
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I dun'no...

Look what happened in Russia.
The Czar declaired himself to be Patriarch.

As long as the Patriarchate was located in a different country, it might be ok.

Then again... being Orthodox might just end up as being a matter of conformity.
I'm a lot more passionate about Orthodoxy than that!

Last edited by howdydave; 16th December 2012 at 08:18 AM.
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