Where are the likeminded?

Thanks, bro...I think I can take that as a compliment. It's been a rough day with gurney as the pinata, so I'll take it!

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Perhaps the best position, isn't so much pro- or anti-Israel, but rather pro-underdog. In some situations Israel is the underdog and other cases their "enemies" (Palestine) are the underdog. In either case, it would seem prudent to the peace effort to support the disenfranchised, no? Otherwise what we have is one group oppressing another.

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Good way of seeing it, IMHO, when considering the ways that both Palestinians/Israelis have both done a lot of mess to one another that has been harmful - and both sides have others who are the "underdog" and disenfranchised as other Palestinians have been mistreated by other Arabs as being too "dirty"/"half-breeds" in their estimation and Palestinian Muslims who are radical have mistreated Palestinian Christians/Jewish believers in Christ who work together for peace.....while Israeli do similar, persecuting other Jewish believers/Arab Christians and even mistreating other Jewish groups that have been historically treated as second-class (like the Ethiopian Jews or African Jews/Sephardic Jews, despised by the Ashkenazi/European Jewish groups who are in dominance in Israel since they were the main ones whose descendands were imported into the land ).

Often, the media always portays either side as being homogenous as if all are the same - with the Palestinians either portrayed as the innocent victims overall and the Israeli's as the bad guys ..or the other way around. And rarely is there coverage of those caught in the middle from both sides who work together/often take flack from everyone because their stories aren't being told

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Ancient, Messianic & glad Yeshua is the Messiah!
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"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ( Fredrick Douglass )

Proverbs 18:15
"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out."

Proverbs 24:3-6
5 A wise man has great power,

and a man of knowledge increases strength.

In a lot of ways, what Israel goes through is similar to the situation with America where we as a nation didn't have a lot of things together and it took a long time to work those things out for certain groups - and as we've existed a lot longer than the Israeli State, some have said we need to give them that same freedom to develop even as we critique them. I'm not "Anti-American" nor "Pro-American" when I note the many things done wrongly in the nation while also noting the many things that have gone properly.


And with American history, even though many groups were often against one another, there were people on all sides of the issue. I've often considered this/brought it up to others whenever others talk on U.S history and speak as if it was always about "whites vs blacks" since the nation didn't always have that ideology - and the very concept of "whitness" was artificially made since you had many Europeans coming over to the U.S (Irish, German, Scotish, Greek, etc.) who were despised/hated just as much as Blacks were - and within Black culture, you had others who were also despised and hated by other blacks for many reasons (some feeling that the mulattos/mixed weren't "black enough" or others feeling others were lower than them because they were "too dark" or others saying it was wrong for them to marry other ethnicities and others blacks who owned land/looked down on others who didn't.....you get the idea). Many times, blacks and whites on the lower-class levels were in similar struggles and united - while those at the top tried to play them against one another...and as time evolved, it eventually reached the point of where it was in the 1950s/earlier where there was more of a universal concept of "White America against Black America"

Those things made a world of difference when it came to seeing how complex things were and why you found others on a myriad of spectrums when it came to their views on how to best go about reforming the nation.



The American experience in many ways parallels what Palestinians experienced. Anytime there's reckless violence, peace is difficult to pursue...and at times, beneficial to those doing the oppressing when it comes to choosing to ignore people on both sides of the issue (and in their respective camps) that they claim to speak for when others on both sides of the isle have been actively working together for peace/living together in radical ways. Many blacks in the U.S who were seperatists/nationalists advocating for others to leave the U.S after centuries of mistreatment (Malcom X and Marcus Garvey amongst the greatest voices), as they realized the ways government often had NO interest in helping the black community unless things were done on the terms of the government...and the call to go back to Africa became strong since the "fruits of America" were never enjoyed by other blacks in America.

The ways that battles over Intergrationism and Seperatism/Nationalism have intermixed is something many need to remember, especially as it concerns what occurred prior to others such as Dr.Martin Luther King and Malcom X in the ways they debated on how much others need to either unite or diverge....and for Israel, the same dynamics seem to be present. Especially when many Palestinians are told they have to hate being Palestinian or treated as if Palestinians don't exist (as Golda Meir, once Prime Minister of Israel, noted infamously) and that they're "dirty"..and yet you have Palestinians who (like Martin) advocate for integration into the power system/fighting democratically while others have said that they wish to have a 3 party state and perhaps move elsewhere for fair treatment and others who are willing to be radical in political advancement via militarism to get what they want while factions on all sides have their own interest on the matter.

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Ancient, Messianic & glad Yeshua is the Messiah!
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"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ( Fredrick Douglass )

Proverbs 18:15
"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out."

Proverbs 24:3-6
5 A wise man has great power,

and a man of knowledge increases strength.

Thanks for the info. Very fascinating and thought-provoking in how others were trained to see things..

__________________

Ancient, Messianic & glad Yeshua is the Messiah!
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"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ( Fredrick Douglass )

Proverbs 18:15
"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out."

Proverbs 24:3-6
5 A wise man has great power,

and a man of knowledge increases strength.

Never really caught what you noticed until now as it concerns the ways the Americans were shown as the enemies and the Serbs were made to be universally the bad guys - with the Christian crosses associated with them.

Thanks for pointing that out

__________________

Ancient, Messianic & glad Yeshua is the Messiah!
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"It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men." ( Fredrick Douglass )

Proverbs 18:15
"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out."

Proverbs 24:3-6
5 A wise man has great power,

and a man of knowledge increases strength.

it was man, just showing political sides are not mandatory in the EO. no candidate has ever gotten it totally right.

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"Everyone capable of thanksgiving is capable of joy and eternal salvation." -Fr. Alexander Schmemann

"The time of the end, though it seems to be near, we do not know. Let us then struggle while it is still day, with the time and the weapons which our All-merciful God has given us!" -Fr. Seraphim Rose

As you've probably seen on this thread, there are plenty of Democrats/Left-leaning people on this board. I hope you stick around.

*cough* Ron Paul *cough*

__________________
"Aslan," said Lucy, "you're bigger."
"That is because you are older, little one," answered he.
"Not because you are?"
"I am not. But every year you grow, you will find me bigger."



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Nope, I usually don't bother getting into any lengthy political discussion with folks IRL.

__________________
"The greater the love, the greater the sufferings of the soul.
The fuller the love, the fuller the knowledge of God.
The more ardent the love, the more fervent the prayer.
The more perfect the love, the holier the life." ~St. Silouan
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The Father is my hope, the Son my refuge, the Holy Spirit my protection: All-Holy Trinity, glory to You!
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PRAY constantly to FIND GOD.
LOVE greatly to KNOW GOD.
PARTAKE of His Sacraments to EXPERIENCE GOD.
~ from my little Orthodox Prayer book

I feel sympathetic to your observations. It is hard to sense acceptance for long in these forums. There is much showing off and dampening of enthusiasm. The leaders must be seen as THE LEADERS.

Be encouraged. The Beatitudes (Matthew 5) and Psalm 37 tell us that the meek shall inherit the earth.

You might find assistance in the following site:

https://sites.google.com/site/conver...versation-pair