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  #11  
Unread 7th November 2012, 11:56 PM
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The idea that both sides, in many respects, are two sides of the same coin rings pretty true overall, but there are big differences imho, that affect people differently. People vote for what is in their best interests and the interests of their families when all is said and done. At a presidential level, the coin analogy is somewhat true. Take Bush to Obama...Guantanemo stayed open, tax cuts remained, Afghanistan remained in play, corporations got pandered to but just in different industries (Bush sucked up to Haliburton, Obama to Solyndra), and so forth....but when it comes to entitlements, they differ greatly and I don't feel they are two sides of the same coin. The GOP would like to close the social safety nets, especially SS and Medicare, and at the very least privatize them. The Dems don't want that at all. Environmentally-speaking, there is little in common between the Left and Right. Where immigration is concerned, they both really are not much different. The Left likes the Hispanic loyalty to their party, the Right likes the cheap labor in the ag. and service industry plus the Hispanic patronage of superstores and their goods. Defense-wise, the Left seems more police-oriented wanting to be defensive and drone-driven, sanctions as policy first, the Right likes boots on the ground and sabre-rattling, boasts of strength and force. The Left is abortion-pandering, the Right wants to restrict it tightly (which I like). The Left is driven toward a gay rights agenda, the Right firmly opposed to it. The Left is pro-gun control often to extremes, the Right is often TOO unrestrictive.

I think in elections there are net gains and losses not matter whom you vote for. As a teacher, I hate the social policies of the Left often times, but find their union patronage and protection of our rights to collectively bargain important. In my State, the GOP just sought to put a strangle-hold on our ability to lobby for our union, giving the sole power to do so to corporations. Luckily, it didn't pass. The Right is very anti-union, the Left the opposite.

So I get what you're saying about big ideas like corporate hind end-kissing and several other large global issues being two sides of one coin, but really the election does indeed change the fortunes of many. I do believe that. Ask the teachers in Wisconsin. If both sides really came out the same all the time, the lobbying that goes on with abandon in this country wouldn't be in play. Money talks and __________ walks, as they say. And you have to follow the $$$$$.

Originally Posted by rusmeister View Post
Passions around the election arise from a strong belief that the vote represents real power and that changing the person in the chair will really change things.

Those that notice, over time, that a victory of the supposedly opposing party does not result in the repeal of the other party's laws gradually cease to believe it.
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  #12  
Unread 8th November 2012, 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Dorothea View Post
I echo everyone's responses. When you struggle to put God first in your life, who wins a worldly election is not as important. It's fine to vote and be whatever label you are: Republican, Democrat, Progressive, Independent, Libertarian....as long as it doesn't take the top priority in your life, which is God.


Keep the main thing the main thing...and that's the Lord. As Willie Colon said best, "Now that the campaign battles are over its a good time to remember that 'we are slaves of our words and masters of our silence'"...

My prayer is that the energy and dedication and prayers that were focused on this presidential election, now move to prayers for our streets, our families, fidelity within marriage, raising children with high moral standards and values, encouraging and training our children to have strong work ethic and discipline, to remain sexually pure and drug free, and that we ourselves would have those very same values and exemplify them in our lives. Know why? That is what really changes communities and lives, policies..well they only throw dollars at these things.
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  #13  
Unread 8th November 2012, 12:06 AM
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Facebook really reveals the racist sides of many people with Obama's re-election. A lot of my old friends or acquaintances from high school are now Tea Partiers and my co-worker and I read stuff that ranged from "let's hope this guy gets assassinated" to "he's not MY president!" to "will someone get a noose!?"

We have a long way to go......

This forum is pretty cool for politics, but I will say that my parish is pretty much like any parish in the Central Valley of California be it Anglican, Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, JW, Lutheran, etc.----very Republican. And as I've been there, I've steadily heard more and more anger toward Democrats, Obama, and a resentment that is really strong. It started at my kids' birthday party where most of the men were sitting together really dishing out some strong loathing for Democrats, and in coffee hours the same thing has gone on. I try to change the subject most of the time, and I'm a political junkie in some ways. But I hate arguing in a Church setting. Father's opinions about how to vote last week, trying to convince parishoners to vote Romney, etc. that was a let-down for me. I had been under the "put now your faith in...." line that Joseph Hazen had quoted mentality and thought most Orthodox stuck to it. Apparently not.

I've only come across one Democrat priest in my life, and that was at my old Catholic parish. My pit-stops at the local Anglican parish, which I adored in many ways, revealed a hardened Republican bias that was even carried to the pulpit. Same thing pretty much everywhere here. The Central Valley has a long tradition of hardened GOP viewpoints and a moral good vs. evil stance with it. Politics here is passionate and pervasive. My wife, being from the Philippines, commented the other day how she can't get over how POLITICAL this valley is and how much rancor there can be...she said politics is akin to religion in these here parts, and I concur. So I don't think most churches have a prayer of NOT being majorly political in the Valley, even Orthodoxy.


Originally Posted by Bourne View Post
I absolutely agree with you, RKO!

TAW has become something of a refuge for me here on CF, I'm convinced that our Orthodox friends here are the most level-headed group of members on the entire board. No matter the fact that there's a variation of political views here, there's also civility and courtesy amongst everybody which is an enormous breath of fresh air and a fantastic testament to Orthodoxy as a whole.

I haven't been on Facebook for almost three years (somewhat reluctantly), but my sister and one of my friends were sharing some of the "status updates" that people were posting after Obama was announced the winner last night. I have to say, some of them were utterly appalling. One individual said "this shakes my faith. pray for me please"

I actually formulated a response, e-mailed it to my friend who turned around and posted it on Facebook because I thought it was so atrocious that this person was insinuating his faith was so intricately woven into his political views that it's "shaken" when his preferred candidate loses.
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  #14  
Unread 8th November 2012, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by gurneyhalleck1 View Post
Facebook really reveals the racist sides of many people with Obama's re-election. A lot of my old friends or acquaintances from high school are now Tea Partiers and my co-worker and I read stuff that ranged from "let's hope this guy gets assassinated" to "he's not MY president!" to "will someone get a noose!?"

We have a long way to go.......
yeah, I saw that too, and coming from fellow conservatives and Christians, it really saddened me. I remember when the left would say all kinds of nasty things toward folks like Bush and Palin, even mocking Romney for the more weird tennants of Mormonism, and all my buddies would do is lament at these shallow and negative personal, not political, attacks. and now they do the same thing. and I know that's the way it has been ever since the beginning (Jefferson and Adams smacktalk was pretty nasty for their day).

it's a pretty sad state of affairs.
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  #15  
Unread 8th November 2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ArmyMatt View Post
I remember when the left would say all kinds of nasty things toward folks like Bush and Palin, even mocking Romney for the more weird tennants of Mormonism, and all my buddies would do is lament at these shallow and negative personal, not political, attacks. and now they do the same thing. and I know that's the way it has been ever since the beginning (Jefferson and Adams smacktalk was pretty nasty for their day).

it's a pretty sad state of affairs.
This election, if nothing else, took the lid off of what folks tried to cover and it was shown more than ever before that racism is still a BIG problem...for it never went away as much as it went undercover and was hidden, in the form of many political stances/ideologies...and when that was challenged/people got frustrated, you see where others really do have some of the same issues folks had in the 1950s/before. It's perhaps a Divine appointment from God to expose things ....and it seemed destined for Barak to get elected in order to address that.
</DIV>
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  #16  
Unread 8th November 2012, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Easy G (G) View Post
This election, if nothing else, took the lid off of what folks tried to cover and it was shown more than ever before that racism is still a BIG problem...for it never went away as much as it went undercover and was hidden, in the form of many political stances/ideologies...and when that was challenged/people got frustrated, you see where others really do have some of the same issues folks had in the 1950s/before. It's perhaps a Divine appointment from God to expose things ....and it seemed destined for Barak to get elected in order to address that.
</DIV>
yeah, it happens every election. people's nasty side always comes out. I'd be willing to bet, that had Romney won, there would have been all sorts of ignorant and hateful stuff thrown his way because of his faith.
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  #17  
Unread 8th November 2012, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by ArmyMatt View Post
yeah, it happens every election. people's nasty side always comes out. I'd be willing to bet, that had Romney won, there would have been all sorts of ignorant and hateful stuff thrown his way because of his faith.
I think so too..although I definately think it would've still been far more with what happened with Obama getting reelected. I've never heard of anyone killing themselves if a president was reelected...or others outright calling the president the N word.
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Unread 8th November 2012, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Easy G (G) View Post
I think so too..although I definately think it would've still been far more with what happened with Obama getting reelected. I've never heard of anyone killing themselves if a president was reelected...or others outright calling the president the N word.
just saw a link that shows peeps on twitter blaming whites for everything wrong with the world, and calling conservative black people the N word because they didn't support Obama.

it is rampant on the Left as well
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Unread 8th November 2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ArmyMatt View Post
it is rampant on the Left as well
Thank you for pointing that out!
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Unread 8th November 2012, 02:31 PM
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Blessings: 1,163,809
Reps: 1,917,707,394,788,146,688 (power: 1,917,707,394,788,165)
Knee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond repute
Knee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond reputeKnee V has a reputation beyond repute
I've seen anger, hatred, and vitriol on all sides of the political spectrum these past two election cycles.

The world is shifting around us. That shift has long since ceased being a small snow ball and is now an avalanche with considerable momentum. Some like it, others don't. Eventually our government will be replaced with a new one, and eventually the seat of power in the world will no longer be in North America. In the meantime, it is what it is. I gave our government my say Tuesday morning, and now what will happen will happen.
__________________
"Aslan," said Lucy, "you're bigger."
"That is because you are older, little one," answered he.
"Not because you are?"
"I am not. But every year you grow, you will find me bigger."



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