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  #1  
Unread 29th October 2012, 08:01 PM
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Jesus did not "hang out" with sinners

In a particular viewpoint, one that seems ever more popular in the 'missional' crowd, we are encouraged do more than evangelize through friendship to unbelievers, but get "messy" with them. One defense of this is Jesus' behaviour toward sinners. It is asserted that he "hung out" with prostitutes and tax collectors., so we should do radical things like go to wordly venues and hang out with sinners too.

But did he? Is Jesus having a discussion and with a prostitute the same thing as going to a Jay-Z concert with a raving drunk, or accompanying a drug addict in their search for drugs in order to help them "stay safe". Would Jesus have personally escorted a person searching for illegal weed?

I submit that he would not. His encounters with sinners were simply that, encounters. He spoke to them, he discussed things with them, he commanded them to "sin no more". There was absolutely no way that he came accross as tolerant of their sinful behaviour. Isn't that what we do when we attend activities that are centered around a spirit of sin? Haven't we been called OUT OF THE WORLD and into fellowship with Christ. What fellowship does light have with darkness?
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Predestination has to do with the fact that ALL OF US WERE SINNERS PREDESTINED TO HELL. He chose in his patience and kindness to grant faith to some that they might be saved by his power, the rest are condemned by their own sin.
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Unread 29th October 2012, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
In a particular viewpoint, one that seems ever more popular in the 'missional' crowd, we are encouraged do more than evangelize through friendship to unbelievers, but get "messy" with them. One defense of this is Jesus' behaviour toward sinners. It is asserted that he "hung out" with prostitutes and tax collectors., so we should do radical things like go to wordly venues and hang out with sinners too.

But did he? Is Jesus having a discussion and with a prostitute the same thing as going to a Jay-Z concert with a raving drunk, or accompanying a drug addict in their search for drugs in order to help them "stay safe". Would Jesus have personally escorted a person searching for illegal weed?

I submit that he would not. His encounters with sinners were simply that, encounters. He spoke to them, he discussed things with them, he commanded them to "sin no more". There was absolutely no way that he came accross as tolerant of their sinful behaviour. Isn't that what we do when we attend activities that are centered around a spirit of sin? Haven't we been called OUT OF THE WORLD and into fellowship with Christ. What fellowship does light have with darkness?
I snipped this out of another study I was doing, but I see him teaching sinners. And in order to teach them he had to receive them. But no I dont see Jesus doing a drug runs with them or any such thing.

This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.

Behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples.

How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

Good and upright is the LORD: therefore will he teach sinners in the way.

They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Paul seems to correct a misunderstanding on this it seems, saying...

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators

Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters;

For then must ye needs go out of the world.

But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.


Whereas they did eat with what the Pharisees (who were actually covetous, Luke 16:14) understood as sinners

Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners?

Then goes right into a parable about more joy in heaven over one sinner that repents. Just as it speaks of how good and upright the LORD is in teaching sinners in the way, and elsewhere of the very goodness of God leading us to repentance thats how I am catching it.
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  #3  
Unread 29th October 2012, 09:39 PM
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I personally do not like going to concerts nor have i yet gone but I am told I am not responsible for others sinning[bless and do not curse]
If my intentions are good to experience something new the sin is on them I did not tell them to sin
It is more reasonable that people will like Christianity if they see it as practical and reasonable and life giving[bless and do not curse]
Maybe you are right we should not hang out with them if they will perish or be damned[bless and do not curse]
But it is my view that God has no interest in those who follow Him out of fear but they do it because it is right[bless and do not curse]

"if any man draws back my soul has no pleasure in him"

People will get no reward for being chaste because of fear the only reward they get would be their salvation Provided they love everyone[bless and do not curse]

St Paul says I did not say not to keep company with the sinners of the world[bless and do not curse]
If that is forbidden then so many other things are forbidden and hopeless people have already become lost simply for being among worldly people[bless and do not curse]
Perhaps we should all be monks ?
Are they more spiritual than others ?

Are people going to come to Christ because they see someone separating themselves from others ?


Now if you was a sinner and someone came to your concert would you be complacent and put the blame on others it's your fault for making the concert and you would also be responsible for all the misbehaviour of others[bless and do not curse]

Whatever is not of faith is sin[bless and do not curse]
Not that the thing is sin we have responsibility to learn ourselves but if you have no faith it is sin[bless and do not curse]

I would also like to know the answer perhaps I am wrong maybe we are responsible for others sinning[bless and do not curse]

Nonetheless people go to have a social life and to live their life

I would think it is probably not a sin

All things are lawful for me but not all things are helpful (for me?)

Last edited by justavisitor; 29th October 2012 at 09:49 PM.
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Unread 29th October 2012, 09:44 PM
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He didn't have to acknowledge the woman at the well, just go by without saying anything. He actively sought her out. And the little guy in the tree, Zekias?--He didn't have to acknowledge him, just walk under Him, and Jesus basically invited Himself to his house. No, He did not go on a drug run with anyone, nor was He a pimp for anyone. But not one single deciple was a Christian before He met them--He seeked them out and taught them. He went to the wedding feast--not the local night club, but it was a party. He was with Peter who would not be converted until after His resurrection. The people He healed were considered sinners by the rest of the population, he went were the demonics were and healed them, he touched lepers--totally unclean thing to do- and healed them. He was no hermit, keeping Himself away from sinners--all were sinners.
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Unread 29th October 2012, 09:54 PM
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If it was a sin can't God have a bit of pity on us and send us a prophet so we can know the exact truth who still forgives us when we sin but do it no more
We do not even know if our voices are from God
Unless of course those who know the bible know it is not wrong
How could the prodigal son be saved after all the sins he did ?
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Unread 29th October 2012, 10:04 PM
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Johns teaching was manifested in Zacchaeus if you listen to what he says (and after whom Jesus comes) in the picture.

Zacchaeus being a cheif publican (of the publicans) which Jesus said believed John is spoken of, For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him. Even, And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

What I thought was kool, was the "Lord behold I give HALF" thing Zacahaeus said, as John said he that hath TWO coats give to him that hath NONE, which is HALF as shown in Zacchaeus. Not to get technical, its just the principal of John can be heard somwhat in Zacchaeus words. Given John baptism was unto repentance, and godly sorrow worketh repentance UNTO salvation (thus we see, "TO DAY salvation is come to this house") as said to Zacchareus. I just see it as a picture, even as John is sent before Jesus, and the outworking of Johns teaching (unto repentance) in Zacchareus shown in that same patern (betwen the two).

And then again the parable which speaks of the publicans and harlots going into the kingdom of God before you

Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.

Theres so much more in that picture I think is awesome.

Then you can catch a picture of worldly sorrow verses godly sorrow in the picture of the the rich young ruler.
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Unread 29th October 2012, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Aijalon View Post
In a particular viewpoint, one that seems ever more popular in the 'missional' crowd, we are encouraged do more than evangelize through friendship to unbelievers, but get "messy" with them. One defense of this is Jesus' behaviour toward sinners. It is asserted that he "hung out" with prostitutes and tax collectors., so we should do radical things like go to wordly venues and hang out with sinners too.

But did he? Is Jesus having a discussion and with a prostitute the same thing as going to a Jay-Z concert with a raving drunk, or accompanying a drug addict in their search for drugs in order to help them "stay safe". Would Jesus have personally escorted a person searching for illegal weed?

I submit that he would not. His encounters with sinners were simply that, encounters. He spoke to them, he discussed things with them, he commanded them to "sin no more". There was absolutely no way that he came accross as tolerant of their sinful behaviour. Isn't that what we do when we attend activities that are centered around a spirit of sin? Haven't we been called OUT OF THE WORLD and into fellowship with Christ. What fellowship does light have with darkness?
It's fine to have friendships with sinners, but we have to remember we are the face of Christ to the lost. We cannot even be seeming to be putting a stamp of behavior on sin. This doesn't mean we are responsible for being the sin-police in someones life, but it does mean that we should live out that upright example so they can see what a life lived for the Lord looks like. It's an impossible thing to get a lost person to stop sinning, but it is a very possible to live a godly example and let the Holy Spirit do His work. We should be a voice of advice, comfort, and stability in a persons life, and certainly not getting "messy" with them. Getting immersed in their sinful lifestyle will lead them to think is that there isn't anything different about us after all.
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Unread 30th October 2012, 02:51 AM
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I think God just wants us not to love sin in our own hearts. If something is offensive we leave it. If you go to a party with friends and people are doing something offensive it is best to leave. By staying you might have shown to God you like the sin but its not about appearance its just that God has recorded your hatred of sin in His book and can take the veil over the heart of the lost sinner by your prayers. Also people will be drawn to you as the bible says "When a man's ways please the LORD He makes even His enemies be at peace with Him" they will witness your godliness one day perhaps


"If anyone sees a brother sin a sin which does not lead to death...."

We may stop a person from sinning by avoiding the place in the first place but God will still hold the offending person guilty for even thinking of sinning if we come there..
We must be tempted in all things before being approved by the LORD.

I know I am making this up but thats how I live my life

Now I will use the bible to support the above though it is vague

2 My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, 3 knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. 4 But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

"Blessed is the man who endures temptation for he only(made this part up) will receive the crown of life which the LORD has promised to those who love Him"

But perhaps they can not have their sins erased so it is better to avoid them so they do not sin


Anyway I know I am making this up but I like it and that is my life..

I don't want to be a speechless and shy guy

Likewise if we look at pornography one person is not being delivered by our prayers

Its all about what God sees and not man

Was it a sin for dinah to see the daughters of the foreign land?

Also part of enjoying work is being able to communicate with your workmates and being familiar with them

It is a better a bible expert enlightens us.

If we can avoid these parties and do something else useful that would be good too but just as a virgin can not condemn a married woman and a married woman can not condemn a virgin it is the same

Last edited by justavisitor; 30th October 2012 at 03:04 AM.
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Unread 30th October 2012, 03:00 AM
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The religious leaders of the day sure thought he spent to much time in too close a quarters with em. They said

"The Son of Man, on the other hand, feasts and drinks, and you say, 'He's a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of tax collectors and other sinners!' But wisdom is shown to be right by its results" Matthew 11:19
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Unread 30th October 2012, 03:13 AM
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Jesus's disciples were sinners, and as far as the new testament goes, he hung out with them allot.
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