Pro-Choice Versus Pro-Life

ranunculus · #**401** 2nd November 2012, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Shane Roach

Sex is one of the most strictly regulated behaviors in all of human history. That's because it has any number of very serious consequences. Acting like people controlling their sexual behavior is some sort of immoral restriction on people's freedoms is really rather absurd.

Typical pro life policies only serve to make women suffer and do nothing to decrease the number of abortions. They're not accomplishing the goal they say they want to accomplish.
What are your views on birth control and comprehensive sex education? Do you think abortion should be illegal?

trientje · #**402** 2nd November 2012, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by ranunculus

So you agree that simply telling kids not to have sex does nothing to bring down the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortion.
Neither does misinforming them with misleading or fraudulent claims such as: birth control does nothing to reduce the rate of unplanned pregnancies, or the pill increases a woman's risk of breast cancer, or abortions cause infertility.

So you believe that teaching kids to have respect for their bodies and actions have consequences is wrong?

ranunculus · #**403** 2nd November 2012, 04:19 PM

The reality is that so-called pro-life movement is not about saving babies. It’s about regulating sex. That’s why they oppose birth control. That’s why they want to ban abortion even though doing so will simply drive women to have dangerous back alley abortions. That’s why they want to penalize women who take public assistance and then dare to have sex, leaving an exemption for those who become pregnant from rape. It’s not about babies. If it were about babies, they would be making access to birth control widespread and free and creating a comprehensive social safety net so that no woman finds herself with a pregnancy she can’t afford. They would be raising money for research on why half of all zygotes fail to implant and working to prevent miscarriages. It’s not about babies. It’s about controlling women. It’s about making sure they have consequences for having unapproved sex.

How I Lost Faith in the “Pro-Life” Movement

This article discusses why pro life policies fail to achieve what they want to achieve. It's fairly long but worth the read. It ends with this quote:

If you are one who has been a part of the pro-life movement because you really do believe in “saving unborn babies,” it’s time to cut your ties with the movement. You may be an honest and kind-hearted person, but you’ve been had. You’ve been taken in. It’s time to let go. It’s time to support Obamacare’s birth control mandate, it’s time to call off opposition to birth control, and it’s time to get behind progressive programs that help provide for poor women and their children. It’s time to make your actions consistent with your motives. While I am myself no longer morally opposed to abortion, I and others like me share your desire to decrease the number of unplanned pregnancies and to ensure that every woman can afford the option of keeping her pregnancy.
We’d love to have you join us.

wannabeadesigirl · #**404** 2nd November 2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shane Roach

Sex is one of the most strictly regulated behaviors in all of human history. That's because it has any number of very serious consequences. Acting like people controlling their sexual behavior is some sort of immoral restriction on people's freedoms is really rather absurd.

Yes a single act of promiscuity can bring about a huge cycle of unfortunate circumstances. At the same time you could say that of gossip or any other action done in selfishness, and yet you don't see people FREAKING out about gossip in church.

Ironically enough the one church I attended that had 16 year old girls repent in front of the congregation for getting pregnant out of wedlock had malicious forms of gossip, and at least 2 emotional abusive husbands in it's congregation that the congregation did NOTHING about.

ranunculus · #**405** 2nd November 2012, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by trientje

So you believe that teaching kids to have respect for their bodies and actions have consequences is wrong?

No of course not, when did I say that?

trientje · #**406** 2nd November 2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by wannabeadesigirl

Yes a single act of promiscuity can bring about a huge cycle of unfortunate circumstances. At the same time you could say that of gossip or any other action done in selfishness, and yet you don't see people FREAKING out about gossip in church.

Ironically enough the one church I attended that had 16 year old girls repent in front of the congregation for getting pregnant out of wedlock had malicious forms of gossip, and at least 2 emotional abusive husbands in it's congregation that the congregation did NOTHING about.

Sin is sin and not one sin is worse than another. Its all sin and we all sin. If you are attending a church that operates like you described above then you need to find another church. Not all churches are operating according to God's word.

trientje · #**407** 2nd November 2012, 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by ranunculus

So you agree that simply telling kids not to have sex does nothing to bring down the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortion.
Neither does misinforming them with misleading or fraudulent claims such as: birth control does nothing to reduce the rate of unplanned pregnancies, or the pill increases a woman's risk of breast cancer, or abortions cause infertility.

misinforming them? birth control in itself does nothing to reduce pregnancies unless you teach them how to use it responsibly, the pill does have a factor in increasing breast cancer because of the increased hormone level and abortion can cause infertility by scarring the fallopian tubes amongst other things. But a girl that does not have respect for her body, who doesn't understand that actions have consequences will not make good decisions no matter what you teach her about the pill, or any other form of birth control.

wannabeadesigirl · #**408** 2nd November 2012, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by trientje

Sin is sin and not one sin is worse than another. Its all sin and we all sin. If you are attending a church that operates like you described above then you need to find another church. Not all churches are operating according to God's word.

That was a church I attended when I was a child. This is a different topic though.

I have a question for you trientje: You're pro life because you believe life begins at conception, and as such has just as much a right to exist as an individual who is out of the uterus.

I'm just curious: What is your response when you find that, in the Bible, a woman who's child miscarries because she was harmed in an altercation is not compensated with the life of the individual who hurt her, but is rather given monetary compensation? This is also considering the fact that in the Old Testament a life was to be repaid with another life.

With that in consideration I personally cannot see how the authors of the Bible even saw life as beginning at conception. I would like to hear your response to it.

And I would also like to put this out there, that many, if not the majority of the supporters of the war in Iraq, limited gun control etc are also pro-life (as we know it in it's current context). Don't you think that is a conflict of interest? That many prolifers are more concerned about the value of a zygote that has an 82% chance of survival than they are with the value of a child that survived 100% until a US made bomb destroyed his life is kind of alarming and more than a little hypocritical IMO.

SavedByChrist94 · #**409** 2nd November 2012, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by SithDoughnut

So you don't support the armed forces, right? Because they kill people, so if you support their existence, it makes you pro-death.

See how silly your argument is yet?

See that, an assumption,

you assume I support stupid wars, I only armed forces for defense, that is not murder.

See how silly your argument is? and that is coming from you, someone who supports the murder of innocent babies/fetus, get out of here with that, it's pathetic.

trientje · #**410** 2nd November 2012, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by ranunculus

How I Lost Faith in the “Pro-Life” Movement

This article discusses why pro life policies fail to achieve what they want to achieve. It's fairly long but worth the read. It ends with this quote:

The reality is that so-called pro-life movement is not about saving babies. It’s about regulating sex. That’s why they oppose birth control. That’s why they want to ban abortion even though doing so will simply drive women to have dangerous back alley abortions. That’s why they want to penalize women who take public assistance and then dare to have sex, leaving an exemption for those who become pregnant from rape. It’s not about babies. If it were about babies, they would be making access to birth control widespread and free and creating a comprehensive social safety net so that no woman finds herself with a pregnancy she can’t afford. They would be raising money for research on why half of all zygotes fail to implant and working to prevent miscarriages. It’s not about babies. It’s about controlling women. It’s about making sure they have consequences for having unapproved sex

Let me try to educate you. The pro life movement is not about opposing birth control. While there may be some movements out there that teach abstinence only thats not what the pro life movement is about. It teaches people how to act responsibly, it teaches people the options available other than abortion. Where did you get the idea that birth control is not available? Go down to the planned parenthood and you can get them for free. Who is penalizing women for being on assistance? You have been listening to Obama's lies again. Our lying divisive president. Please, do your research and learn the truth.