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  #1  
Unread 22nd October 2012, 11:47 AM
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Alert Strange Experience with Jehovah's Witnesses

For the last four years, Jehovah's Witnesses came to my door every few months. I usually take the Watchtower booklet and tell them I will look it over. Usually I just trash it. I don't mean to be rude with them but I'm not looking to be converted.

They came back about a month ago and i told them that now would not be a good time to talk( it wasn't) and I asked them to come back midweek. In the meantime, I read the Watchtower booklet and wrote some questions/notes down. I took out my Bible and cross-referenced it with scripture quoted in Watchtower and found some inconsistencies.

The women came back and I invited them in. I served some refreshments and made some small talk but they were ready to get down to business. I looked at the one woman and it was impressed upon me that she was not always a JW. I asked her what she was before a JW, prehaps Baptist? She looked at me surprised and confirmed. I asked why she converted. I was told that her mother was a JW but also she didn't like how "mysterious and cryptic" the Bible is written. I explained that Jesus wrote in parables...etc

I began feeling strange and did not feel God's presence with me. I felt a coldness, a void. The women began asking me questions and if I agreed with this or that. Since I disagreed that Jesus was God's first creation, I was asked to read from my Bible where that was was stated. I SAW AN ILLUSION. i saw the words and read them aloud! I couldn't believe what I was reading. I could hear myself agreeing with what they were saying! The woman were listing examples as to why the trinity did not exist, that Jesus did not have the same power as God...etc

I gave them examples to try and contradict that but it ended up making their case stronger. Where does it say trinity in the Bible? Where does it show Jesus\God evrr as one etc... I remember, I had bible verses and notes written down and everything was turned against me. They say that unless te Bible explicitly states something as fact, then it does not exist.

I felt emotionally drained, confused and upset by the time they left. As I walked them to the door, I noticed a third woman in a car waiting.

What upset me the most was not feeling God's presence but the evil and oppression. I felt confused and embarrassed. I saw an illusion! And I felt like I was trying to be deceived under the guise of light.

I don't understand why God was not there with me when I prayed a lot about it. Now these women are supposed to be coming back and I don't think I want them to come into my home again.

Does anyone have advice or words of encouragement and support?

Thank you,
Erie
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  #2  
Unread 22nd October 2012, 12:38 PM
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Have you checked to see if the words you read are still there? If so, you need to talk to someone about their true meaning, and also look up the verses referring to Christ (the Word) being eternally co-existent. Also consider that while the word "trinity" doesn't exist in the Bible, the concept is throughout. Try Jesus' baptism, where Father, Son and Holy Spirit were together simultaneously.

Your experience is common, and the JW script is designed to make you feel that way. Remember, they are taught what to teach others. They don't have a bible that's correctly translated, which is why John 1:1 reads that the Word was "a god" rather than "God". The New World Translation differs from all other translations in this regard and isn't to be trusted.

The book Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin will have you back on your feet in no time if you can get a copy.
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  #3  
Unread 22nd October 2012, 03:12 PM
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Ask them to come in and pray with you. They're not allowed to as you're a infidel.
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"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” “In the beginning, Lord, you founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain... Hebrews 1:8-11
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Unread 22nd October 2012, 03:14 PM
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Also Larry's probably one of the best authorities when dealing with the Watchtower.

Check it

Dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses, Watchtower Society - YouTube
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But of the Son he says,
"Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,and the righteous scepter is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.” “In the beginning, Lord, you founded the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain... Hebrews 1:8-11
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  #5  
Unread 22nd October 2012, 03:42 PM
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Bible

Erie79-

The JW's have taken individual verses, and even 1/2 verses, which they can use to support their own agenda, so they will direct you to those particular verses. However, in many cases they will not permit you to read the passages in which those verses are contained, due to the passages having an entirely different meaning than the verses they have chosen to use.

The JW's have a history of desiring to destroy all Christian churches. Here are a few quotes from their publications, including The Watchtower itself, confirming this:

In sharp contrast to Christendom and Judaism, Jehovah's Christian witnesses, who are residing in the spiritual paradise of his favor and protection, are the ones who have taken Jehovah as their King...They are therefore the ones that are safeguarded from the spiritual sicknesses and maladies and plagues that afflict Christendom and Judaism. (Man's Salvation, page 215)

Christendom's course is 'the way of death.' Let us go no farther in it. Time still allows for a person's escape from being executed with her. (The Watchtower, 09/01/79, page 21)

Jehovah today has not minced words in stating his judicial decision against Christendom. He has commissioned his Jeremiah class [Jehovah's Witnesses] to declare a correspondingly straightforward message of calamity to the modern counterpart of ancient Jerusalem and Judah. Unsparingly, unwaveringly, the Jeremiah class must adhere to all that he commands them in his Word. (The Watchtower, 09/01/79, page 22)

Today Christendom's clergy-prophets outspokenly back up the international conspiracy against Jehovah's kingdom by his Christ. Jehovah's witnesses are not authorized to pronounce the death sentence upon any of them. But they can take up the inspired utterance of Jehovah and apply it against the clerical false prophets.... So, here now let us read of Jeremiah's prophetic actions.... "Look! I am sending you away from off the surface of the ground. This year you yourself must die, for you have spoken outright revolt against Jehovah." Jeremiah 28:15-16 (The Watchtower, 11/01/79. page 26; 05/15/80, page 27; 08/15/79, page 27)

I have no doubt that the 'coldness' you were feeling while in their presence was their hatred directed at you for being a Christian. Much as they might attempt to disguise their true motives, those motives are directed at destroying entirely all Christian teaching and belief, and leaving the JW's in full control of the spiritual welfare of everyone.

Their theology includes Jesus' being the 'cloning' in human form of the archangel Michael; that there was no resurrection, but instead this same archangel Michael was cloned a second time; that once he was cloned, the previous incarnations of Michael simply vaporized into nothingness; and that our salvation is totally dependent on how obediently we follow every directive pronounced by the members of The Watchtower Society, including directives which oppose what we find in Scripture (where Scripture and those directives differ, Scripture itself is to be seen as subordinate to their directives).
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  #6  
Unread 22nd October 2012, 04:15 PM
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The Jehovah Witnesses have, honestly, a great apologetic and ministry program that is difficult to beat. Did they specifically say,"if it isn't in the Bible, it ain't real,"? Or is that something you just got from them? If so, you could ask about how cars and cell phones aren't in there, but they are real.

Onto the Trinity question. In Genesis, God discusses with Himself about mankind's creation. He refers to Himself as "we". This(obviously) implies multiple people He is talking to. We see three distinct "God characters" in the Bible, the Father(Creator), the Son(Redeemer), and the Holy Spirit(Guide). Whether these are three distinct beings(who collectively make "God") or just three "personalities" of "God" is open to debate. But the fact remains that there are three separate "minds" in the Godhead. This is the Trinity.
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  #7  
Unread 22nd October 2012, 06:08 PM
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Christ Tread carefully

Please be careful when dealing with the jw's I was one from 11 to 13, I became a Christian when I was 33, for two and a half years, it took for me to finally accept Jesus was god, I knew it in my head, because I read the bible and I knew it to be true but I begged him to show me, he showed me in my heart that it was true, it was then I could finally accept it, my point being that for two years as a jw, at such a young age, being there had affected me that much that 20 years later, I was still holding on to their teachings, some of the jw's have been there all their lives, so when you talk to them there argument will be strong, because they will believe every word they are saying, even if it is false, and they are a cult, which isn't easy to say as my Aunty is a jw, and my nanna died being one. Anyway take care, there is some good advice on this post from everyone. god bless you all
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Unread 22nd October 2012, 06:22 PM
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You were poorly prepared (on doctrine), it sounds like, but as you saw, the Spirit of God was with you. You can not literally see spirits, so we tend to either sense them, there are a variety of ways. You seem to have been sensing some very negative spirits with them.

You can know the Spirit of God was with you because you knew what religion the woman came from.

You do not always have a feeling of the Spirit of God, because, for instance, you can not sense two spirits at once, especially if you do not know what that sensing is.

It is like one can stare at a mole on someone's face and just get locked into it.


On doctrine, I assure you the JW's are very, very bad. My wife's mother is in that cult and the damage done to her is extreme.


On trinity, that is a Roman doctrine, but it has some basis in Scripture. It is OK as a rough line basis.

But, you end up unprepared if you have not studied Scripture.


You should be wary of accepting any doctrine taught by men. Many doctrines have been accepted which come straight from Rome, and so straight from the Dark Ages. Protestants have kept a great many of these teachings.


I am by no means saying these women are correct, they are absolutely wrong, but they are correct in pointing out the Bible does not have the trinity in it.

Jesus is the face of God people see, the very form of God. He is not "the Son of God" as Adam was said to be the Son of God. He is God in the flesh.

There are limitations in the flesh, limitations of this world which Jesus has to deal with. That full mystery is best described as how we dream: when we dream we are the person in the dream, and also the one who creates and sustains the dream world.


Scripture calls the Spirit, "the Spirit of Jesus", "the Truth", "the Spirit of Truth", "the Spirit of God", "the Spirit of the Father", "the Spirit of Jesus", and so on. Meaning the unity of God and Jesus is well known.


No one sees God but through Jesus.

While there are limitations of the flesh, there are also extraordinary benefits, which evens matters out.

That said, if you notice it is said Jesus fills all the universe, and in Revelation, Jesus points out "I will be your God". When it was asked to show the Father, Jesus was bothered, and asked how long he had been with them.

What Jesus kept saying the Father did on his behalf, Jesus also pointed out he did these things as well.

If they can not say Jesus is God, as anyone can do, then they have a problem. That is like being unable to say Jesus is Lord. If they can not say Jesus is God come in the flesh, then that also exposes them for what they are.

Trinitarians should be able to say these things, but when people take the trinity concept too far, they find themselves essentially making Jesus a demi-god, and denying his God hood in the flesh -- just as Romans have raised Mary up to be "the Queen of Heaven".
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Unread 23rd October 2012, 10:35 AM
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Does anyone have advice or words of encouragement and support?
There is a DVD called "The Witness of Jehovah". In it ex-JWs tell of the history and problems of the JW. At the end each of the people tell of how they came to Jesus. You may want to get a copy and ask them to watch it with you.

What you will find is that JW is remarkably well organized. One of the reasons IBM did so well was that they identified the decision maker in a company and hit him with a specialized sales approach. At the end of the sales they brought in a "closer" who would finalize the sale.

Often the JW will bring in a closer if they find you are resistant.

To understand a little of their tenacity you have to see that they believe they are working their way to heaven. They used to say that there were 144,000 spots available in heaven and the ones that handed out the most literature go in. They now say that these spots have been filled, but there is a second class spot open for those who earn it. You are not so much a lost soul for which they are burdened as a stepping stone for them to reach their goal.

If you try to engage these people in the flesh (in your own strength, with your own logic and wisdom), you may feel the oppression of their bombardment. They have spent years practicing to drive a wedge in where they can get you to agree with them.

Find something basic;

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

They will try to convince you that your translation of the Bible is wrong. It is interesting that back at the turn of the century, there was a court trial and the guy who wrote the JW translation was found to know no Greek.

I find that if I ask them to explain why they are attempting to convert me to JW when they should be attempting to bring people to Jesus, they are not as well prepared to give an answer.

If they are not interested in bringing people to faith in Jesus, how can they call themselves "Christian"?

If they claim that their "translation" of the Bible is superior, I claim that the diminishment of Jesus makes their Bible "another gospel".

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

You can also raise the shield of faith;

2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
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Unread 26th October 2012, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Erie79 View Post
I began feeling strange and did not feel God's presence with me. I felt a coldness, a void. The women began asking me questions and if I agreed with this or that. Since I disagreed that Jesus was God's first creation, I was asked to read from my Bible where that was was stated. I SAW AN ILLUSION. i saw the words and read them aloud! I couldn't believe what I was reading. I could hear myself agreeing with what they were saying! The woman were listing examples as to why the trinity did not exist, that Jesus did not have the same power as God...etc

I gave them examples to try and contradict that but it ended up making their case stronger. Where does it say trinity in the Bible? Where does it show Jesus\God evrr as one etc... I remember, I had bible verses and notes written down and everything was turned against me. They say that unless te Bible explicitly states something as fact, then it does not exist.

I felt emotionally drained, confused and upset by the time they left. As I walked them to the door, I noticed a third woman in a car waiting.

What upset me the most was not feeling God's presence but the evil and oppression. I felt confused and embarrassed. I saw an illusion! And I felt like I was trying to be deceived under the guise of light.

I don't understand why God was not there with me when I prayed a lot about it. Now these women are supposed to be coming back and I don't think I want them to come into my home again.

Does anyone have advice or words of encouragement and support?

Thank you,
Erie
I just read a christian site this morning and after that I read christian forums. I read your thread and I am so surprised to find that you have some doubts concerning the Jehovah's witnesses because that's exactly what I read about this morning! So I believe it is not by mere coincidence that I read about JW and then ended up reading your thread after that but I guess it is the Lord clearing your doubts.

Well, I read that a woman and her 14 year old son was in a restaurant. Her son had the amazing gift of seeing into the spiritual realm. 4 adults and a teenager accompanying them entered the restaurant and sat close to this woman's and her son's table. This woman's son felt compelled to give this teenage boy his Bible. But the adults with the boy prevented him from accepting the Bible as they said they belong to Jehovah's witness which is an antichristian cult. This woman's son spoke to her in horror that he could see four large demons standing near each of these 4 adults and a small demon standing behind the teenager with the demon's hands outstretched towards the boy's head. No wonder you could not feel God's presence with you!

Reading your thread and reading what this woman has written I now believe that what both of you are saying is true as the experiences are so similar. Please DO NOT entertain such people into your homes. You wrote that you do not want to be rude to them. But if it means messing up with your salvation then you sure have to be rude. Just don't let them in the next time they turn up. There are many verses in our perfect flawless Word which supports this fact.
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. 2 John 1:10-11
Do not be yoked together with unbelievers.

Last edited by Shulamite7; 5th November 2012 at 03:27 AM.
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