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16th October 2012, 10:44 PM
|  | Fundamentalist Christian and Calvinist
   
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Reps: 1,003,708,594,097,212,288 (power: 1,003,708,594,097,220) | | | The Basis for Our Justification
I am going to be quoting quite a bit from Holy Scripture and John Piper's book "Fifty Reasons Why Jesus Came to Die".
Romans 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Romans 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. [NASB]
Being justified before God and being forgiven by God are not identical. To be justified in a courtroom is not the same as being forgiven. Being forgiven implies that I am guilty and my crime is not counted. Being justified implies that I have been tried and found innocent. My claim is just. I am vindicated. The judge says, "Not guilty."
Justifying is a legal act. It means declaring someone to be just. It is a verdict. The verdict of justification does not make a person just. It declares a person just. It is based on someone actually being just. We can see this most clearly when the Bible tells us that, in response to Jesus' teaching, the people "justified" God (Luke 7:29). This does not mean they made God just (since He already was). It means they declared God to be just.
The moral change we undergo when we trust Christ is not justification. The Bible usually calls this sanctification -- the process of becoming good. Justification is not that process. It is not a process at all. It is a declaration that happens in a moment. A verdict: Just! Righteous!
The ordinary way to be justified in a human court is to keep the law. In that case the jury and the judge simply declare what it is true of you: You kept the law. They justified you. But in the courtroom of God, we have not kept the law. Therefore, justification, on ordinary terms, is hopeless. The Bible even says, "He who justifies the wicked [is] an abomination to the Lord" (Proverbs 17:15). And yet, amazingly, because of Christ, it also says God "justifies the ungodly" who trust in His grace (Romans 4:5). God does what looks abominable.
Why is it not abominable? Or, as the Bible puts it, how can God "be just and the justifier of the one who [simply!] has faith in Jesus" (Romans 3:26)? It is not abominable for God to justify the ungodly who trust Him, for two reasons. One is that Christ shed His blood to cancel the guilt of our crime. So it says, "We have now been justified by His blood" (Romans 5:9). But that is only the removal of guilt. That does not declare us righteous. Canceling our failures to keep the law is not the same as declaring us to be a law-keeper. The cancellation must happen. That is essential to justification. But there is more. There is another reason why it is not abominable for God to justify the ungodly by faith. - John Piper
And the second reason is imputation. More from John Piper on this facet of justification, imputation and sanctification, and how they interrelate later.
__________________ God is Sovereign
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [NASB]
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20th October 2012, 08:08 PM
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Reps: 883,221,220,156,007,680 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Faith.Man  I am going to be quoting quite a bit from Holy Scripture and John Piper's book "Fifty Reasons Why Jesus Came to Die".
Romans 5:9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Romans 3:24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Romans 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. [NASB]
Being justified before God and being forgiven by God are not identical. To be justified in a courtroom is not the same as being forgiven. Being forgiven implies that I am guilty and my crime is not counted. Being justified implies that I have been tried and found innocent. My claim is just. I am vindicated. The judge says, "Not guilty."
I disagree with your definition. Justification is the payment of a crime. We are guilty but the punishment for that crime has already been paid. That is being justified. We are justified by His blood and don't have to face the Wrath of the Father.
All it takes is our faith to be justified. Justification is the salvation of the spirit, the birth of the new man that comes via faith by grace. Sanctification is the salvation of the soul, the renewing of our mind, the process to grow spiritually and become more Christlike.  |
28th October 2012, 01:44 AM
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Reps: 1,003,708,594,097,212,288 (power: 1,003,708,594,097,220) | | Originally Posted by Yahu I disagree with your definition. Justification is the payment of a crime. We are guilty but the punishment for that crime has already been paid. That is being justified. We are justified by His blood and don't have to face the Wrath of the Father.
All it takes is our faith to be justified. Justification is the salvation of the spirit, the birth of the new man that comes via faith by grace. Sanctification is the salvation of the soul, the renewing of our mind, the process to grow spiritually and become more Christlike. I quoted from John Piper, the definition is his, not saying I disagree. Although you attribute that statement to me, it really belongs to John Piper.
__________________ God is Sovereign
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [NASB]
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28th October 2012, 01:56 PM
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Reps: 883,221,220,156,007,680 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Faith.Man I quoted from John Piper, the definition is his, not saying I disagree. Although you attribute that statement to me, it really belongs to John Piper.
Ok, I am disagreeing with the posted definition. |
1st November 2012, 06:22 PM
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Reps: 1,003,708,594,097,212,288 (power: 1,003,708,594,097,220) | | Justification by Faith
Romans 3
21 But now apart [k]from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [l]who believe; for there is no distinction; 23 for all [m]have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 25 whom God displayed publicly as a [n]propitiation [o]in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, [p]because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; 26 for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who [q]has faith in Jesus.
So we are justified (all sin removed as if it never happened) by faith in Jesus, by His sovereign grace. Justification is not payment for a crime.
__________________ God is Sovereign
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [NASB]
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4th November 2012, 10:07 PM
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Reps: 68,216,583,899,354,032 (power: 68,216,583,899,358) | | | Here is how I explain justification.
Say I rob a bank and go before the judge. I am guilty of the crime and he sends me to prison for 10 years. After that 10 years I am released and my debt is paid. The problem is that I am still guilty. I haven't removed the guilt by my punishment. To be justified means that there is no guilt. It means thAt I have actually kept the law. We are justified by the death of Christ because He bore our guilt in His own body on the tree and was made to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. Being united to Christ by faith is to have been punished for my crime and to be found guiltless. That is why God can justify the ungodly through Christ. He took my guilt as His own and my sin became His sin and He absorbed all the wrath of God against my guilt and sin until it was spent and could no longer raise it hand against me. United to Christ I am as holy as God's Son. That is why John says as He is so are we in this world. 1John 4:17.
But we must never make faith to be the cause of our justification. We are justified by the life and death of Christ our Surety not by our faith. The cause of our justification is the person and work of Christ. Faith is the conduit through which we recieve justification in our hearts. I maintain that the comma in Rom. 5:1 is in the wrong place. It was put there by translators who held that faith justifies us. The passage should read "Therefore being justified, by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
__________________
God was pleased to put the treasure of His Gospel in earthen vessels, 2Cor. 4:7. God make me to know that I am nothing but a mud pot.
Oh that men would give up their war with God and be reconciled to His reconciliation.
Fear will always drive you away from God. It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.
The same righteous law that demands our destruction in Hell while we are in Adam now with the same unbending righteousness demands our everlasting glory in Christ. |
7th November 2012, 06:36 PM
| | Fundamentalist Christian and Calvinist
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Reps: 1,003,708,594,097,212,288 (power: 1,003,708,594,097,220) | | Originally Posted by twin1954 Here is how I explain justification.
Say I rob a bank and go before the judge. I am guilty of the crime and he sends me to prison for 10 years. After that 10 years I am released and my debt is paid. The problem is that I am still guilty. I haven't removed the guilt by my punishment. To be justified means that there is no guilt. It means thAt I have actually kept the law. We are justified by the death of Christ because He bore our guilt in His own body on the tree and was made to be sin for us that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. Being united to Christ by faith is to have been punished for my crime and to be found guiltless. That is why God can justify the ungodly through Christ. He took my guilt as His own and my sin became His sin and He absorbed all the wrath of God against my guilt and sin until it was spent and could no longer raise it hand against me. United to Christ I am as holy as God's Son. That is why John says as He is so are we in this world. 1John 4:17.
But we must never make faith to be the cause of our justification. We are justified by the life and death of Christ our Surety not by our faith. The cause of our justification is the person and work of Christ. Faith is the conduit through which we recieve justification in our hearts. I maintain that the comma in Rom. 5:1 is in the wrong place. It was put there by translators who held that faith justifies us. The passage should read "Therefore being justified, by faith we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. When we say faith, we must recognize that we only have faith because of God's grace. (Ephesians 2:8-10) To many people see their faith as a work that produces something. Whether faith produces justification is somewhat immaterial. God gave us saving grace to produce faith, and that not from ourselves so no one could brag, it wasn't earned either, it was an unmerited gift of God.
__________________ God is Sovereign
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [NASB]
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8th November 2012, 12:49 AM
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Reps: 68,216,583,899,354,032 (power: 68,216,583,899,358) | | Originally Posted by Faith.Man When we say faith, we must recognize that we only have faith because of God's grace. (Ephesians 2:8-10) To many people see their faith as a work that produces something. Whether faith produces justification is somewhat immaterial. God gave us saving grace to produce faith, and that not from ourselves so no one could brag, it wasn't earned either, it was an unmerited gift of God.
Far too many think that their faith is the means or cause of justification. It isn't our faith that justifies it is the object of faith that justifies. That object is Christ. Sadly even Reformed folk believe that it is faith that justifies.
__________________
God was pleased to put the treasure of His Gospel in earthen vessels, 2Cor. 4:7. God make me to know that I am nothing but a mud pot.
Oh that men would give up their war with God and be reconciled to His reconciliation.
Fear will always drive you away from God. It is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.
The same righteous law that demands our destruction in Hell while we are in Adam now with the same unbending righteousness demands our everlasting glory in Christ. |
8th November 2012, 12:20 PM
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Posts: 1,903
Blessings: 10,017,209 My Mood
Reps: 883,221,220,156,007,680 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by twin1954 Far too many think that their faith is the means or cause of justification. It isn't our faith that justifies it is the object of faith that justifies. That object is Christ. Sadly even Reformed folk believe that it is faith that justifies.
It is faith in the justification that Yeshua provided on the cross. |
9th November 2012, 11:01 AM
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There are a lot of things involved in the salvation of those of us who are redeemed. Thankfully, it does not all have to be understood for the salvation of any new believer. It is all in Jesus Christ, according to our faith, truly believing him our Lord and savior, to live accordingly. Through him is the only way to come to the heavenly Father. Yahweh is holy and acts in absolute righteousness, with assuring complete justice. But he is compassionate and loving, providing for all that rightly respond to his grace the way of salvation with their essential faith, through Jesus Christ and what he did for us, coming among us, living and doing all he did for us, and giving up his life in the payment meeting the requirement in payment for sin.
This payment is not meant with the term justification, although the payment provides for it. The term which would mean that is atonement.
__________________
Psalm 92:1 It is good to give thanks to Yahweh,
And to sing praises to Your name, O Most High
Believe in Yahweh who is God, the self-existent Creator and God of all the universe; and revere His name; and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ; and know to flee sin and materialism that compromises our lives in this age. Let us give Yahweh God His place in our lives and take a true Biblical position.
Christian Tribe of Yahweh | | |
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