Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Discussion and Debate > Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion orthodox and unorthodox Christians only - A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. full preterism, unitarianism).

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 24th September 2012, 12:14 AM
Newbie

Gender: Male Faith: Presbyterian Member For 2 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 4th May 2012
Posts: 186
Blessings: 19,263
Reps: 8,708,156,967,120,150 (power: 8,708,156,967,123)
choux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond repute
choux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond reputechoux has a reputation beyond repute
Schizoaffective Disorder And The Bible

Check this out. The idea behind cognitive behavioral therapy is that beliefs affect your emotions and behavior. Schizoaffective disorder is people who have some signs of schizophrenia with a mood disorder. Mine's bipolar. I've never heard voices or saw things like other people. I've been studying the Bible since I was 15. I had my psychotic break when I was in my late 20's. It always centers around Biblical things. Could this statement be true for me?

"The Bible is filled with so many diametrically opposite viewpoints that if they were present in a human being we would probably label that person bipolar or, even worse, schizophrenic." - Paul Tobin

You see, I never cherry picked the Bible and believed only the good things. I believed all of what I read. The crazy things and the loving things. Who knows.
Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Unread 24th September 2012, 12:41 AM
Xpistis sopheiaX's Avatar
Newbie

Gender: Male Faith: Christian-Seeker Member For 2 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 16th January 2012
Posts: 878
Blessings: 83,910
Reps: 11,928,113,719,168,304 (power: 11,928,113,719,171)
Xpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond repute
Xpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond reputeXpistis sopheiaX has a reputation beyond repute
Speaking as someone with training in psychology I absolutely don't believe religion can cause schizoaffective disorder. People tend to either ignore things that cause "cognitive dissonance" or integrate them in a way that makes sense to the individual.

Obsessing over guilt and hell could certainly cause depression, anxiety, and maybe worse, however from what I remember in school the schizo-disorders have more of a biological basis (although your counselor is very likely to use CBT as part of your treatment).

The view of God is not consistent throughout the Bible (one of the reasons I am no longer orthodox). It almost seems like God is wrathful and petty one minute, loving and merciful the next. It's hard to give equal weight to everything, and my personal recommendation is that you don't.

My best advice is to seek God and pray, asking Him what is most important for you.

Since I'm Gnostic Christian I'm very biased toward seeing God as only merciful and loving. I absolutely don't believe a Christian needs to accept anything that isn't perfect about God to follow Christ.
__________________
Faith receives, love gives. No one will be able to receive without faith. No one will be able to give without love. Because of this, in order that we may indeed receive, we believe, and in order that we may love, we give, since if one gives without love, he has no profit from what he has given.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 24th September 2012, 05:40 AM
DrBubbaLove's Avatar
Senior Veteran

54 Gender: Male Married Faith: Catholic Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 8th August 2004
Location: Left coast
Posts: 7,782
Blessings: 9,517,609
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 320,275,140,520,941,760 (power: 320,275,140,520,959)
DrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond repute
DrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond reputeDrBubbaLove has a reputation beyond repute
Not all Christians have that same understanding of the OT scriptures or imagined contradictory points. And for many, the fact they do not share that understanding has nothing to do with ignoring what some others see as uncomfortable depictions of God or supposed "obvious" contradictions in Scripture.

There are other satisfactory explanations which do not require the suspension of logic or otherwise suppose an unsound mind. I will agree some denominations either do not IMO address these issues or if so the response is inadequate or even unsound. Call me biased but I think the Church handles answering these things better than any other and one thing that made me want to look closer at Church teachings.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 24th September 2012, 08:44 AM
hiscosmicgoldfish's Avatar
Liberal Anglican

51 Gender: Male Faith: Anglican Party: UK-Conservative Country: United Kingdom Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 1st March 2008
Posts: 3,606
Blessings: 1,140,587
My Mood Tell
Reps: 39,641,247,145,180,856 (power: 39,641,247,145,190)
hiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond repute
hiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond reputehiscosmicgoldfish has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ColeTheCalvinist View Post
Check this out. The idea behind cognitive behavioral therapy is that beliefs affect your emotions and behavior. Schizoaffective disorder is people who have some signs of schizophrenia with a mood disorder. Mine's bipolar. I've never heard voices or saw things like other people. I've been studying the Bible since I was 15. I had my psychotic break when I was in my late 20's. It always centers around Biblical things. Could this statement be true for me?

"The Bible is filled with so many diametrically opposite viewpoints that if they were present in a human being we would probably label that person bipolar or, even worse, schizophrenic." - Paul Tobin

You see, I never cherry picked the Bible and believed only the good things. I believed all of what I read. The crazy things and the loving things. Who knows.
I think the bible has been written by many people, and those people are just human. Some of it was inspired by the Holy Spirit, and some of it was just historical stuff, laws that were part of the culture, stories that people could remember. Some of it was just made up by frauds, fakes, for whatever reason, who claimed to have visions and prophesies, as many people claim today. I have my own list of false books that made it into the bible. It seems that most of the major prophets made false predictions. The Torah is reliable imo. Daniel is toally out, Revelation is offensive heretical garbage. A lot of the letters in the new testament were not written by the people named.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 24th September 2012, 08:59 AM
Newbie

Gender: Female Married Faith: Christian Member For 2 Years
 
Join Date: 29th November 2011
Location: Backwoods, Ohio
Posts: 8,835
Blessings: 11,492,498
Reps: 3,713,627,438,514,840,064 (power: 3,713,627,438,514,851)
seeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond repute
seeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond reputeseeingeyes has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ColeTheCalvinist View Post
Check this out. The idea behind cognitive behavioral therapy is that beliefs affect your emotions and behavior. Schizoaffective disorder is people who have some signs of schizophrenia with a mood disorder. Mine's bipolar. I've never heard voices or saw things like other people. I've been studying the Bible since I was 15. I had my psychotic break when I was in my late 20's. It always centers around Biblical things. Could this statement be true for me?

"The Bible is filled with so many diametrically opposite viewpoints that if they were present in a human being we would probably label that person bipolar or, even worse, schizophrenic." - Paul Tobin

You see, I never cherry picked the Bible and believed only the good things. I believed all of what I read. The crazy things and the loving things. Who knows.
I am just a layman, here, but I think it's more likely that the Bible colored your psychotic break than caused it. It seems that if you had never had a Bible in your hand, other fears would have surfaced instead. Perhaps secret societies, or aliens, or bugs, or something. I don't think a simple examination of ideas can cause such a serious complication.

What I see in the Bible now (I guess you could say I had a bit of a 'break' myself after my son died), is that God's ways really are not our ways. And from the context of that verse mercy is the way of God that is so foreign to man, though we often use that saying to try to explain away His judgement.

God's love is fierce like a mama bear, and this world is the place for Him to showcase such fierce love.

May God bring you His peace, brother.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Unread 24th September 2012, 10:02 AM
JoJo50's Avatar
Trying to do Jehovah's will

Gender: Female Faith: Jehovahs-Witness Member For 3 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 7th March 2011
Posts: 303
Blessings: 2,025,458
My Mood Blessed
Reps: 10,316,274,488,362,326 (power: 10,316,274,488,366)
JoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond repute
JoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond reputeJoJo50 has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ColeTheCalvinist View Post
.
But seeing things, or hearing things doesn’t make one schizophrenic. Of course satan plays a part in most of what humans goes through. Satan already wants mankind to blame ALL that seems evil and wicked on Jehovah God. So that one wouldn’t want to do his will, as Jesus said we should do. which would determine if we’ll live or die, (Matt.7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven).

God’s words shows satan is on the attack on humans ,(1Pet.5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour). Many who sees things or hears things, is due to Satan’s attacks. But because man, especially from decades ago, didn’t truly understand the real..ness, of satan. Started putting labels on one who’s being acttack by satan. Many are thrown in padded rooms, being told some things wrong with their mind. You can best believe those many doctors, even today.

Won’t tell a soul, if satan ever jack with their minds. They wouldn’t want to be seen as …” schizophrenic” Remember the biblical story of two possessed by demons?, Matt. 8:28-32. these people wasn’t “schizophrenic”, it wasn’t JUST in their heads. the demons really was attacking them. Today they would be taken straight to Bellevue. Many so wants to believe, we have total control in EVERYTHING we do, sadly fooled by satan.

Thought Jehovah God DOESN’T make us do anything, (if he did, we ALL would be doing his will,…as Jesus showed), he does put it in our hearts and minds to do right. But still he leaves it all up to us. Satan on the other hand, doesn’t, when we’re doing evil, satan not only puts it into our head and hearts, But he can makes sure we do it. Anything satan wants us to do, see, or say, (even if one THINKS!...he controls his own world), IF we don’t run to Jehovah’s for protection ,(Isa. 41:13), James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you). And follow Jesus teachings, (John 3:36), satan will be all on us. peace
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Unread 24th September 2012, 10:33 AM
Unix's Avatar
Studying Greek, NT Hermeneutics, Ptolemy

32 Gender: Male Faith: Anabaptist Country: Europe Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 29th November 2003
Location: Verbum+ ECC,Hermenei,Baker NTC (HK). Accorda Torah: A Modern Commentar,AYBC NT
Posts: 2,002
Blessings: 101,173,808
My Mood Serious
Reps: 191,834,061,793,295,392 (power: 191,834,061,793,308)
Unix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond repute
Unix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond reputeUnix has a reputation beyond repute
In several cases that's not a problem! Such as Eph, 2 Pt, Jude

There are many modern scholars who say that Acts wasn't written by Luke because it shows a too harmonic history. There is of course Lukan language in Acts, but that might as well be because Acts is polished.

There is a Bible version that omitts all of Acts: http://www.christianforums.com/t7641923/
Originally Posted by hiscosmicgoldfish View Post
A lot of the letters in the new testament were not written by the people named.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 24th September 2012, 11:17 AM
Phantasman's Avatar
Newbie

Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian-Seeker Country: United States Member For 2 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 12th May 2012
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,264
Blessings: 1,133,518
My Mood Inspired
Reps: 219,257,304,148,684,000 (power: 219,257,304,148,691)
Phantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond repute
Phantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond reputePhantasman has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by ColeTheCalvinist View Post
Check this out. The idea behind cognitive behavioral therapy is that beliefs affect your emotions and behavior. Schizoaffective disorder is people who have some signs of schizophrenia with a mood disorder. Mine's bipolar. I've never heard voices or saw things like other people. I've been studying the Bible since I was 15. I had my psychotic break when I was in my late 20's. It always centers around Biblical things. Could this statement be true for me?

"The Bible is filled with so many diametrically opposite viewpoints that if they were present in a human being we would probably label that person bipolar or, even worse, schizophrenic." - Paul Tobin

You see, I never cherry picked the Bible and believed only the good things. I believed all of what I read. The crazy things and the loving things. Who knows.
Further proof that the spirit realm exists.

In the Gospel of Mary, Jesus says:

10) I said to Him, Lord, how does he who sees the vision see it, through the soul or through the spirit?
11) The Savior answered and said, He does not see through the soul nor through the spirit, but the mind that is between the two that is what sees the vision

The mind is influenced by both the physical and spiritual realms. How sensitive ones mind can be to spiritual things must play a part in physical thought process. After all, the mind prays. We are asked to enter a closet to attempt to close out the physical to get in touch more clearly with the spiritual. But the mind is the conscious go between, so why can't it also be a receiver as well.

How does one think demons enter the soul? Why do some people have regression to past lives that cannot be explained? It can work both good and evil, for edification and deception. (Mediums).
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:36 AM.