Is it ever the Christ like thing to do to get a divorce?

The Unforgettable Fire · #1 11th September 2012, 01:22 AM

I am in the position of having been asked for advice and I thought I would field the question here.

When is it time to end a marriage or is it ever time?

When a spouse has been unfaithful in their heart (wanting someone else for a very long time?)

When a spouse is sexually unfaithful (the act)?

When a spouse is violent to the other?

When a spouse is indifferent to the other spouse?

When a spouse commits a crime?

When a spouse is conflicted or unrepentant?

Is the Christ like thing to do, to bear with the other spouse regardless? Or is their a point where the abused spouse is supposed to draw the line in the interest of self preservation?

I don't want to give any details in case one or both parties finds out I post at this forum. So it could be male or female, with or without children. Just two John/Jane does.

What do you tell a fellow Christian who is in this type of tragic scenario and has tried everything to resolve the issues, yet they have never found resolution?

I don't want to suggest divorce, but I also don't want to say just be a floor mat because that is what Jesus would do. an ultimatum from what I gather would end in disaster and talking apparently hasn't resolved the issue. They are both good people, but in a bad situation and it has been a problem for them for many years with it never going away.

What would be your advice?

ServantJohn · #2 11th September 2012, 01:55 AM

"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery."
(Mat 19:9 ESV)

To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her. If any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he consents to live with her, she should not divorce him. For the unbelieving husband is made holy because of his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy because of her husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.
(1Co 7:12-14 ESV)

jiminpa · #3 11th September 2012, 03:32 AM

If there's physical abuse there is probably Biblical grounds for divorce. I just don't recommend anyone staying in an abusive relationship. What people on the outside see is just what has risen to the surface and can't be hidden. There is always much more beneath the surface. I can't really back that position up with scripture though.

Yahu · #4 11th September 2012, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by The Unforgettable Fire

I am in the position of having been asked for advice and I thought I would field the question here.

When is it time to end a marriage or is it ever time?

When a spouse has been unfaithful in their heart (wanting someone else for a very long time?)

When a spouse is sexually unfaithful (the act)?

When a spouse is violent to the other?

When a spouse is indifferent to the other spouse?

When a spouse commits a crime?

When a spouse is conflicted or unrepentant?

Is the Christ like thing to do, to bear with the other spouse regardless? Or is their a point where the abused spouse is supposed to draw the line in the interest of self preservation?

I don't want to give any details in case one or both parties finds out I post at this forum. So it could be male or female, with or without children. Just two John/Jane does.

What do you tell a fellow Christian who is in this type of tragic scenario and has tried everything to resolve the issues, yet they have never found resolution?

I don't want to suggest divorce, but I also don't want to say just be a floor mat because that is what Jesus would do. an ultimatum from what I gather would end in disaster and talking apparently hasn't resolved the issue. They are both good people, but in a bad situation and it has been a problem for them for many years with it never going away.

What would be your advice?

According to Yeshua the only grounds was for fornication. IMO that was implying that you contracted to get a virgin and found out on your wedding night she was not. You could return her to her father's house at that time.

Anything else is to be worked through IMO. Granted my life isn't the best example. I did divorce my wife when she turned up pregnant by another while I was across country. It turned out she had been drugged and raped while I was ordered by family and spiritual authority to put her out of my life. If I had it to do over again, I would have told them to stick it and headed back across country.

If the wife is the problem, it is up to the husband to teach her. If the problem is the husband, well prayer or going to authority over him is the only option.

Tobias · #5 11th September 2012, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Yahu

According to Yeshua the only grounds was for fornication. IMO that was implying that you contracted to get a virgin and found out on your wedding night she was not. You could return her to her father's house at that time.

Huh. I never considered it that way before. But it is true, that infidelity after you are married isn't called "fornication" anymore, it's adultery!

Sorry you had such a horrible experience with an ex-wife, Yahu.

My first wife left me for someone else. While I was still reeling from the shock and considering what steps were to be taken toward reconciliation, they went down into Mexico and got married. I figured that was pretty clear grounds for divorce! So I gave her some money when she asked for help filing the paperwork.

If the wife is the problem, it is up to the husband to teach her. If the problem is the husband, well prayer or going to authority over him is the only option.

Personally I think the biblical principles on marriage simply reek of cultural situations that are completely unlike our own. The woman has to be a virgin, but not the man? He is responsible to teach her, but never the other way around? Perhaps if marriage is typically between a 30 something yr. old man and a teenage girl, then he really should be responsible to train her properly and she should submit to him as an elder brother in the Lord.

The question I would like to raise is, how bad is it to commit adultery? I mean, there are many things that can go on in a broken marriage that are also quite bad and can have a lasting negative effect on both the couple and the children. So which is worse? A one time (or is it a continuous sin?) act of committing adultery, or a daily repeat of abuse and hatred?

dysert · #6 11th September 2012, 06:40 AM

Unfortunately, I can't give Scriptural support for my opinion, but I'll offer my opinion nonetheless...

Originally Posted by The Unforgettable Fire

I am in the position of having been asked for advice and I thought I would field the question here.

When is it time to end a marriage or is it ever time?

Sometimes...

When a spouse has been unfaithful in their heart (wanting someone else for a very long time?)

No. The heart can change.

When a spouse is sexually unfaithful (the act)?

Not if it's a one-time thing. We all make mistakes. If it's an ongoing thing, though, I'd say adios.

When a spouse is violent to the other?

Yes. Protect yourself.

When a spouse is indifferent to the other spouse?

No. The heart can change.

When a spouse commits a crime?

No. We all make mistakes.

When a spouse is conflicted or unrepentant?

No. Jesus didn't leave us when we were unrepentant.

These opinions are easy to give sitting here in my easy chair. I realize that reality is much more difficult. Dissolving a family is *extremely* difficult and should only be entered into after much prayer, counseling, and time have passed.

Hishandmaiden · #7 11th September 2012, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by The Unforgettable Fire

I am in the position of having been asked for advice and I thought I would field the question here.

When is it time to end a marriage or is it ever time?

When a spouse has been unfaithful in their heart (wanting someone else for a very long time?)

When a spouse is sexually unfaithful (the act)?

When a spouse is violent to the other?

When a spouse is indifferent to the other spouse?

When a spouse commits a crime?

When a spouse is conflicted or unrepentant?

Is the Christ like thing to do, to bear with the other spouse regardless? Or is their a point where the abused spouse is supposed to draw the line in the interest of self preservation?

I don't want to give any details in case one or both parties finds out I post at this forum. So it could be male or female, with or without children. Just two John/Jane does.

What do you tell a fellow Christian who is in this type of tragic scenario and has tried everything to resolve the issues, yet they have never found resolution?

I don't want to suggest divorce, but I also don't want to say just be a floor mat because that is what Jesus would do. an ultimatum from what I gather would end in disaster and talking apparently hasn't resolved the issue. They are both good people, but in a bad situation and it has been a problem for them for many years with it never going away.

What would be your advice?

I think divorce is justifiable when there is physical abuse of some kinds.
I think it is also justifiable when the spouse is of a different religion from yourself.
I think it can be justifiable if the spouse keeps on committing adulteries or some other bad things, without showing even the slightest bit of remorse.

Other than that, it is better for a couple to stay together. For when someone is in a marriage, he or she had joined together with the spouse and becomes one in body, and spirit.

Ajax 777 · #8 11th September 2012, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by Hishandmaiden

I think divorce is justifiable when there is physical abuse of some kinds.
I think it is also justifiable when the spouse is of a different religion from yourself.

Actually, Scripture says "But to the rest I say, not the Lord,
that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever,
and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her.
And a woman who has an unbelieving husband,
and he consents to live with her, she must not send her husband away.
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife,
and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband;
for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
Yet if the unbelieving one leaves, let him leave;
the brother or the sister is not under bondage in such cases,
but God has called us to peace. For how do you know, O wife,
whether you will save your husband? Or how do you know, O husband,
whether you will save your wife?" - 1 Corinthians 7:12-16

So a spouse's unbelief is NOT Scriptural grounds for divorce if they
want to stay married to their believing wife/husband.

Originally Posted by Hishandmaiden

I think it can be justifiable if the spouse keeps on committing adulteries or some other bad things, without showing even the slightest bit of remorse.

Actually, it IS Scriptural and justified to divorce after even one act of adultery.
Whether or not they are remorseful doesn't even enter into it,
as far as Scripture's counsel goes. Taking remorse into consideration would be
up to each individual betrayed believer, but it isn't commanded by the Scripture.

After all, Esau sought with tears for the inheritance he had cast aside,
but he did not obtain it. And again, look at Judas, who felt so awful after
he'd betrayed Jesus that he hanged himself, and is now in Hell.
Sometimes, remorse after the fact just isn't enough.

The Unforgettable Fire · #9 11th September 2012, 09:09 AM

Thanks for all the responses so far I know for me marriage has definitely had some close calls. One thing I have learned about myself is that I can't let go unless I feel like I have done everything possible to make it work. Fortunately that has been enough so far. I can't bring myself to tell this person what they should or shouldn't do. I guess I'll just tell them that and try and be their friend who won't judge either way.

Svt4Him · #10 11th September 2012, 08:29 PM

Yes, and the verse about divorce that is often misquoted has nothing to do with divorce, but the Jewish practice of putting a spouse away without a legal divorce.

Quoted with permission Divorce Book | Divorced Christain | Christian Divorce Advice | Divorce Guilt

To Which Situation Did God Say, "I Hate Putting Away (Divorce)?" We have heard this Scripture: “the Lord God of Israel says that HE HATES DIVORCE” (Malachi 2:16). This is almost always quoted as if God hates all divorces in general. But that’s just not true. We have previously read from the Bible books of Ezra, Nehemiah, Jeremiah, Deuteronomy and 1Corinthians that God is not against divorce. Then why all the confusion concerning why God said that “He hates divorce?” The reason for the confusion is because there are TWO “kinds” of marriages and TWO “divorces” being mentioned in the Malachi 2:11-16 passage.

The “divorces” were not official divorces; they didn’t need to be. They were already previously married and “unofficially” married again. The Hebrew word shalach means “putting away”― a separation, as correctly translated in most Bibles. However, the King James and a number of newer versions have incorrectly translated shalach as to mean: divorce. It never meant divorce and it doesn’t mean divorce. The word was most likely translated as “divorce” to fit what was taught in the church. Shalach is just a common word used throughout the Old Testament which means to: go, separate or to send. That’s it!

So why did God angrily say that He “…hated putting away [a separation]?” “…Because you have not kept My ways [concerning marriage, divorce and remarriage] but have SHOWN PARTIALITY IN THE LAW” (Malachi 2:9). The Law specifically stated that when a man got a divorce from his wife that he was to write “…her a CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE, put it in her hand, AND [shalach] send her out [put her away]…” (Deuteronomy 24:1). God also commanded them not to marry anyone who did not serve him ― who served a foreign god (See Nehemiah 13:25-30).

Instead, men separated from their wives without ever giving them a Certificate of Divorce and then illegally married someone else. This is why the Lord said that they were still “their wife by covenant.” The marriage covenant had never been dissolved by the Divorce Certificate.

“The Lord’s holy institution which He loves...the Lord has been witness between you and the wife of your youth ...[and] SHE [STILL] IS YOUR COMPANION AND YOUR WIFE BY COVENANT. For the Lord God of Israel says that He hates divorce [shalach], [separating without a Certificate of Divorce].... He has [illegally] married the daughter of a foreign god. May the Lord cut off ...the man who does this being awake and aware” (Malachi 2:11,12a,14b,c,16a).

Because these men had remarried illegally ― separated from their wives without giving them a Certificate of Divorce, they were in adultery as Jesus stated: “Furthermore it has been said, “Whoever PUTS AWAY [separates from {apoluo}] his wife, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE. But I say to you that whoever PUTS AWAY [separates and remarries without being divorced from] his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery: and whoever marries a woman who is PUT AWAY [separated without being divorced {apoluo}] commits adultery” (Matthew 5:31-32). (The Lord never forgot about the Malachi incident when He came to earth to redeem lost man).

The Old Testament Hebrew word shalach and the New Testament Greek word apoluo are equivalent which will be discussed later.

Because these disobedient men still had “un-divorced” wives, the Lord did not command them to give their illegal wives a Certificate of Divorce, rather, they simply had to “separate, put them away, [shalach].” SO DID GOD HATE DIVORCE? NO! RATHER, GOD HATED THAT THE HUSBANDS WERE SEPARATING FROM THEIR WIVES WITHOUT GIVING THEM A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE WHICH WOULD ENABLE THEM TO GET REMARRIED. THIS IS WHAT GOD HATES!

The men of Israel were SEPARATING from their wives for self-gratifying reasons. God Himself was a “witness” at their original marriage ceremony which was still in effect. The marriage covenant was never dissolved by a Certificate of Divorce. The men remarried outside their own culture (race) and tribe. God considered the children they bore unholy because of the mixed marriages bringing curses into their families (See Ezra 9:1,2, Nehemiah 13:26-30).

Because of these unauthorized marriages, the Word of God came to Ezra and Nehemiah to have the men and women of Israel who had done this thing, to separate from their spouse and even from their children (See Ezra 9:1, 11-12, 10:3, Nehemiah 13:23-27). In this situation, God’s command was to “put them away, separate yourselves from them!” This was NOT the kind of marriage to which God was saying, “I hate divorce!” He was saying loudly, “Get out of these wrong marriages!”

DIVORCE IS A METHOD TO SEPARATE THE ONE, AND MAKE THEM INTO TWO just as a surgeon’s knife is used to separate the cancerous flesh from the healthy flesh. Both operations are good. Divorce can be used to kill a righteous marriage, just as a surgeon’s knife can be used to kill a healthy person.

The Greek word apoluo: is the equivalent of the Hebrew word: shalach.