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  #1  
Unread 6th September 2012, 11:32 PM
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Ephesians 2:10 - What Does It Mean to You

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [NASB]


As a Fundamentalist and a Calvinist, I quote Ephesians 2:8-9 quite often. But Ephesians 2:10 is every bit as powerful. Even our future good works are prepared for us ahead of time. Thoughts or comments?
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  #2  
Unread 6th September 2012, 11:48 PM
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Without faith, good works are useless.
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I observed, "Love is the fulfilling of the law, the end of the commandment." It is not only "the first and great" command, but all the commandments in one. "Whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, if there be any virtue, if there be any praise," they are all comprised in this one word, love.

Wesley quoting his own sermon on "The Circumcision of the Heart" (1 January 1733) in the work A Plain Account Of Christian Perfection (Edition of 1777).
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  #3  
Unread 7th September 2012, 08:42 AM
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Hi faithman,

I know for me the key to the verse is understanding what 'that' refers to.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
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  #4  
Unread 7th September 2012, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Nemo Neem View Post
Without faith, good works are useless.
It all starts with God. By His grace (unmerited favor), He gave you the faith through Christ from whom salvation comes. It is a gift of God that we have done no works to deserve. He created us for good works, but God prepared these for us before creation so that we could walk in them. These three verses should be taken together and are a powerful message to those who think their good works will save them. As you say, good works without faith are useless.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [NASB]
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  #5  
Unread 7th September 2012, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by miamited View Post
Hi faithman,

I know for me the key to the verse is understanding what 'that' refers to.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
Ephesians 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. [NASB]


"That" refers to the previous prepositional phrase. Grace and faith are not from your innermost being. "That" is not from you. "That" is from God, and it is a gift.

I am a mechanical design engineer. When I work on one of my own designs, or even someone elses, I will immerse myself so I know the design inside and out. That's why as a mechanical engineer, I can troubleshoot electronic devices, faulty programming, hardware defects, chemical reactions, vibration effects, etc. I can do that by God's grace on my life, I take no credit. He made me and I'm His to do with as He will.

God is our creator. He knows the number of hairs on your head. (He doesn't need to count so high for me.) He knows our innermost thoughts, and He knows how He created us and how we will react. He prepared good works for us to do in this our lifetime. He knows whom of us will perform these good deeds, and who will not. When we perform any good deeds, God deserves all honor and glory. We too often forget that.

God Bless You,
Faith.Man (aka Bob)
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  #6  
Unread 7th September 2012, 01:47 PM
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An Augustinian emphasis, which this passage has, would be to respons that it is more important what the passage means than what it means to me, or you, so as to remind ourselves that Truth is an objective reality which is not a matter of opinion. Such a response would be interpreted by many as petulant. Therefore I will not respond in such manner so as not to offend by implication.

From God's point of view, EVERYTHING is predetermined, pre and post conversion, and not one particle in the universe moves without His Will it do so. From our point of view, thereis free will, and the future can be molded by our actions, thoughts and feelings which we can, in part, control. Both statements are True. Logically both statements can not be true. It is classical logic that is flawed. The universe, when not being directly altered by God in what is called a miracle, does not obey the rules of logic. As far as we can tell, it does obey the laws of mathematics, which is a distinct system of thought than logic.

Once you get a grasp of the mathematics of Einstein relativity or quantum mechanics, you will understand why God's Sovereignty and man's free will are both true. His thoughts are higher than our thoughts. Not even after a million years in sinless communion with God will we be able to perceive time and space as He does. I am no Eastern Orthodox aspiring to theodicy, which is syncretic heresy with eastern philosophies. God has chosen to communicate Truth to us in the frail imprecise vessel of human natural language. As pascal wrote into the lining of his coat, He is the God of Abraham Jacob and Isaac, not of the philosophers (I paraphrase).

Pascal is a great philosopher and mathematician, even more so now that he is dead to his body and in sinless life with Jesus Christ. He understood the limits of our human understanding, and I honor his memory when I state that past a certain point, understanding God can only be done on our knees. I will not follow Erasmus and the humanists into the folly of creating a box of systematic theology in which to confine my understanding of God. Neither will I follow the excess mysticisim of Dyonysius the Pseudo-Aeropagite who gace license to the Eastern Orthodox to create an apophatic theology which ended with theodicy. I will confess that God is Truth, even if every man, including myself, be proved a liar.

So yeah, I perform the Good Works, and yeah, it is not I but God who performs them through me as He predestined to do so. And if that does not quite fit into my tiny cranium, so be it. Where I to fully understand God, would he really be God?

JR, the CalvArminian Fundamentalist
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  #7  
Unread 7th September 2012, 09:39 PM
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Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Gosh, after reading all these posts I find myself not too deep theologically.
"For we are His workmanship" to me means we are the work of His hands...not our own. "Created in Christ Jesus for good works.....that we would walk in them." Not only are we the work of His hands, but He made us with a purpose...to glorify Him through His word...His work...His word. The saved are sanctified....set apart for a special purpose...holy vessels to be used in service to Him.
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Unread 7th September 2012, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by busdriver72 View Post
Ephesians 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Gosh, after reading all these posts I find myself not too deep theologically.
"For we are His workmanship" to me means we are the work of His hands...not our own. "Created in Christ Jesus for good works.....that we would walk in them." Not only are we the work of His hands, but He made us with a purpose...to glorify Him through His word...His work...His word. The saved are sanctified....set apart for a special purpose...holy vessels to be used in service to Him.
What seems clearcut to you and me might mean something entirely different to others. But the scriptures seem quite clear to me.
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  #9  
Unread 10th September 2012, 06:07 PM
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Faith man at the risk again of insulting, be careful when you think that the Scriptures are "quite clear" to you. I afirm Scriptural perspicacity and perspicuity, BUT I also know I am but a child playing at a tiny sheltered part of the seashore. The Sctritures are a vast ocean, and while we can comprehend all we NEED to, and even much more than we need, at the seashore, plumbing their depths are beyond the capacity of the brightest angel, Holy or unholy. Satan found out how out of his league he was when he thought to "win" by killing the Christ. Satan could not plumb the depths how the "seed of the woman" would crush his head; and Satan is way craftier than any of us.

We may indeed state Truth, some easily gleaned from the Scriptures as the poor gleaned among the sheaves dropped of ancient Israel. The full harvest of Scriptural Truth we must be careful not to claim.

JR, still way too arrogant and full of dross despite 30 years of being furnaced, beaten, fired again, beaten and pounded again and again.
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  #10  
Unread 11th September 2012, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cubanito View Post
Faith man at the risk again of insulting, be careful when you think that the Scriptures are "quite clear" to you. I afirm Scriptural perspicacity and perspicuity, BUT I also know I am but a child playing at a tiny sheltered part of the seashore. The Sctritures are a vast ocean, and while we can comprehend all we NEED to, and even much more than we need, at the seashore, plumbing their depths are beyond the capacity of the brightest angel, Holy or unholy. Satan found out how out of his league he was when he thought to "win" by killing the Christ. Satan could not plumb the depths how the "seed of the woman" would crush his head; and Satan is way craftier than any of us.

We may indeed state Truth, some easily gleaned from the Scriptures as the poor gleaned among the sheaves dropped of ancient Israel. The full harvest of Scriptural Truth we must be careful not to claim.

JR, still way too arrogant and full of dross despite 30 years of being furnaced, beaten, fired again, beaten and pounded again and again.
I take no offense. I was speaking in specific terms regarding Ephesians 2:10, not forgetting the verses before it or after it. My Bible understanding is no more than an infant compared to some of my more learned posters in the Fundamentalist and Reformed sub-Forums.

I take the Bible literally, as I believe it was and is meant to be taken. How could an Arminian interpret Ephesians 2:10 to support his/her point of view?
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