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  #1  
Unread 6th September 2012, 02:21 AM
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Too spiritual for earthly good...

We've all heard the saying: "So spiritual that you are no earthly good."

Any truth to this?
Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
God breathed life into man and man became a living soul. This is a spiritual action: we are spirit/soul/body. God formed man's (adam -- and you thought it was his name) body of the dust of the ground (adamah). This is physical: it is our bodies. And God breathed (neshâmâh -- a puff, a wind, soul, spirit) life (chay). This is spiritual.

So in Word/Faith there is a saying: We are a spirit, we have a soul, and we live in a body.
Genesis 1:26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So we were made in God's likeness and image. And we were given dominion over all life in this earth, and over all the earth.
Hebrews 2:6-8
What is man, that You remember him?
Or the son of man, that You are concerned about him?
7 You have made him for a little while lower than the angels;
You have crowned him with glory and honor,
And have appointed him over the works of Your hands;
8 You have put all things in subjection under his feet.
Man was put here and appointed over the works of God's hands -- what are the works of God's hands? It is the creation: the living animals, the plants, etc. The only thing that is not mentioned as being in sujection to us is our fellow man.

So we are made a spirit, in a physical (earthly) body. Our relationship and our interaction with God is spiritual. But why are we here? For what purpose did God place man in this world?

To preach the Gospel?? Do you think?

Here's Adam (and soon Eve) and he is placed in this world: to preach the Gospel?? I don't think so. Once the fall occurred and man began to become wicked, there was a need for the Gospel message to be preached. But that is not the original reason we are here.

We are then given dominion in this earth. We are told to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth. We are told to be, well, physical (as oppposed to spiritual, which Adam and Eve already were in their relationship with God).

So I'm going to stop here, with this introduction. Man is a spirit, but he was placed in a physical world to take dominion and be physical here. Nowhere are we told that we are to eschew the physical, just that it is not our primary being.

So, can you be so spiritual that you are no earthly good? Who cares if we are? And is that bad? What if we simply focused 100% of our being on our spiritual side and ignored this earth and what is in it? Would that please God? Perhaps that's how we got to where we are today. Hmm?
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  #2  
Unread 6th September 2012, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by ABlessedMan View Post
We've all heard the saying: "So spiritual that you are no earthly good."

Any truth to this?

I have never agreed with that statement, I believe the more spiritual we are (not obnoxious with it) it will be attractive to people and they will be drawn to us and we will be of more earthly good...

I sometimes think this statement is a cop out for carnality, I need to be a little carnal or I am no earthly good...
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Unread 6th September 2012, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PastorMike View Post
I have never agreed with that statement, I believe the more spiritual we are (not obnoxious with it) it will be attractive to people and they will be drawn to us and we will be of more earthly good...

I sometimes think this statement is a cop out for carnality, I need to be a little carnal or I am no earthly good...

Well said, PastorMike... That statement does float around Christian circles some... Another similar statement that I hear from time to time is that: "So rapture minded that you are no earthly good."


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Unread 6th September 2012, 12:49 PM
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Ok, let's go with this...

Originally Posted by PastorMike View Post
I have never agreed with that statement,
To the point that I see you are making herein, I agree.

Originally Posted by PastorMike View Post
I believe the more spiritual we are (not obnoxious with it) it will be attractive to people...
Now here you've touched on what I want to discuss, but clearly you have made a caveat or a "border" for it. In other words, can we really be so spiritual that we become obnoxious? Or is that state "something else?" If we define spiritual as "likeness and image of God" then absolutely we will be mre attractive to people (and some of them won't even know why!).

Originally Posted by PastorMike View Post
...and they will be drawn to us and we will be of more earthly good...
Ahh. But we are back to earthly good. Which is my main point, now isn't it?

Originally Posted by PastorMike View Post
I sometimes think this statement is a cop out for carnality, I need to be a little carnal or I am no earthly good...
Hmm. Ok, now we need to define carnal as well....for this mixes it into earthly good (or are they the same? Hint: no!)

So that all are on the same page, let's define...
(1) Spiritual;
(2) Carnal;
(3) Earthly Good.
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Unread 6th September 2012, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by hhodgson View Post
Another similar statement that I hear from time to time is that: "So rapture minded that you are no earthly good."
Yes, I've heard that one. I know someone who is very close to that; has been expecting the imminent rapture for about 25 years now and sometimes slips into a mode of not caring to do any "earthly good" because we will all be out of here tomorrow.

So come on, Harry....where's the balance? Or is "balance" even the right term to use?
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Unread 6th September 2012, 01:33 PM
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What about considering the ways people speak of the Kingdom of God and yet ignore how that plays out practically in the lives of others? Dr. Martin Luther King often noted it during the era he lived in and how others often spoke of Christ/His Kingdom and yet it didn't seem to go outside the 4 walls...or be powerful enough to cause others to take dominion outside the church in the world. In his views, "a minister cannot preach the glories of a spiritual heaven and ignore the realities that cause men to have an earthly hell."
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Unread 6th September 2012, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Easy G (G) View Post
What about considering the ways people speak of the Kingdom of God and yet ignore how that plays out practically in the lives of others? Dr. Martin Luther King often noted it during the era he lived in and how others often spoke of Christ/His Kingdom and yet it didn't seem to go outside the 4 walls...or be powerful enough to cause others to take dominion outside the church in the world. In his views, "a minister cannot preach the glories of a spiritual heaven and ignore the realities that cause men to have an earthly hell."
This is part of what I want to get at. Dr. King was a man who lived his faith for the "earthly good." And I'd like to pull out of it just what "earthly good" encompasses. Is it just feeding the poor and taking care of orphans and widows, or does it extend to where we shop, what we buy; does it (and how does it) extend past the walls of our church?

And what about if you own a business, does it relate to who you hire or what other businesses you do business with? If you work for a business, does it relate to who you choose to work for? (Example: if you are a church would you hire an atheist as, say, the maintenance man if he can do the job and won't proselytize his atheism?)
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Unread 6th September 2012, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ABlessedMan View Post
Yes, I've heard that one. I know someone who is very close to that; has been expecting the imminent rapture for about 25 years now and sometimes slips into a mode of not caring to do any "earthly good" because we will all be out of here tomorrow.

So come on, Harry....where's the balance? Or is "balance" even the right term to use?

Could it be a balance between what is considered false spiritually/true spiritually..? In general, true spiritually can make people more "earthly good" and not less... The closer we get to God, the more we love our fellow man and are motivated to serve others, where a false spiritually would do the opposite and be no earthly good... and as you say... Is balance even the right term..?

We will follow you and see where you are heading with this...


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Unread 6th September 2012, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ABlessedMan View Post
This is part of what I want to get at. Dr. King was a man who lived his faith for the "earthly good." And I'd like to pull out of it just what "earthly good" encompasses. Is it just feeding the poor and taking care of orphans and widows, or does it extend to where we shop, what we buy; does it (and how does it) extend past the walls of our church?

Seeing what Dr.King often saw firsthand, it is no surprise to see the ways that he often went against what others deemed to be "normal" interaction. When he spoke against the Vietnam War and began his Campain against Poverty, many felt he was going too far...but he felt it was the only way for him to be consistent.






Martin Luther King said it best when noting that all life is interrelated. There's an excellent article on the issue entitled All Life is Interrelated.

As Martin Luther King Jr. wrote in his sermon Where Do We Go From Here:
All men are interdependent. Every nation is an heir of a vast treasury of ideas and labor to which both the living and the dead of all nations have contributed. We are everlasting debtors to known and unknown men and women. When we arise in the morning, we go into the bathroom where we reach for a sponge which is provided for us by a Pacific islander. We reach for a soap that is created by a European. Then at the table we drink coffee which is provided for us by a South American, or tea by a Chinese or cocoa by a west African. Before we leave for our jobs we are already beholden to more than half the world.We are inevitably our brothers keeper, because we are our brothers brother. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly.
Often, we as believers are not really concerned with seeing this in action and addressing this properly even when we're aware of it.

And for examples, how often do you hear of believers saying they'r concerned about giving up jeans once realizing that they're made on the backs of slavery/sweat-shops in China? How often will you hear of the majority of believers in the U.S choosing to not equate consumeristic cultures with "prosperity" and not being flippant with what they do with all of the waste that comes afterward? As much as taking care of widows/orphans is a big deal, it often seems things like that are done as a pat on the back so they can avoid where injustice is still being done to others in other ways. We think it's good when we take care of widows on our block but say nothing when it comes to orphans/widows and neighbors globally.....and we think nothing of how we often import much of our waste to other nations as if it's their responsibility to handle our junk.




For another example, in reading the book "Everyday Justice", I was surprised to see the demands we often put on produce/veggies creates conditions even in the U.S akin to what one would expect in the days of SLAVERY/plantations. In 2010, I went with my best bud to Florida..and its still shocking to consider how many tomato farms limit others to slave-like conditions, with no fair wages and inhumane treatement of workers when it comes to chemicals they have to work with without protection to produce the tomatoes we enjoy. The US government has repeatedly uncovered slavery rings among farms in Florida, and in 2008, five farm owners were prosecuted for beating tomato harvesters ...with many cases of sexual harrassment on the women, who were migrant workers and forced into silence.

Taco Bell, which is one of the leading industries demanding tomatoes, was implicated in many cases for their working with these same farms---knowingly allowing it to continue as long as they got their produce on time. It was exposed recently..and only of late have they begun to try addressing the problem. But for many, if you tell them about it, what's the response? No one cares really





For more info, one can go online and look up an article under the name of the following:

The same thing goes for things like Coffee, as much of America is addicted to it and has no idea of how they often support slavery whenever they get it due to fair wages not being paid to the farmers who make coffee for us. The issue goes beyond vegetables/agricultural foods of course....for whether it be it agriculturally made or domestically raised animals, much is recieved through corrupt means...and not many are concerned for that.

. After coming back from a Mission trip to Michigan last July and working at the migrant farms there...seeing how many are abandoned and people often complaining on "government being too big" don't care about the ways government ALLOWS them to benefit from corrupt markets if they get products they want at any cost.....I'm sorry, but that makes me SICK. Being there working with other WOF ministries who did work there, I was thankful for being able to work with them....and yet I was sadden to consider the ways people discussed the need for intervention/Kingdom and yet won't work in places where the Kingdom is least seen.







And what about if you own a business, does it relate to who you hire or what other businesses you do business with? If you work for a business, does it relate to who you choose to work for? (Example: if you are a church would you hire an atheist as, say, the maintenance man if he can do the job and won't proselytize his atheism?)
I would think that a buisness following Kingdom principles would be focused on how to hire fairly and what would be the best way of presenting Christ to others. The same goes for treating others the way Christ was.
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Proverbs 18:15
"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge....."
Proverbs 24:3-6
5 A wise man has great power,
and a man of knowledge increases strength.

Last edited by Gxg (G); 13th September 2012 at 03:41 PM.
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  #10  
Unread 6th September 2012, 06:30 PM
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73 Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Country: New Zealand Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 3rd August 2004
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Johnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond reputeJohnnz has a reputation beyond repute
The original post presents a Greek influenced physical/spiritual dualism. Man is a unity, an incarnational being, created from the dust of the earth, signifying our intrinsic relationship with creation. We will have a resurrected body for us to live well in the renewed creation at the end of our time.

Jesus is the complete denial of that dualism. His divinity was not diminished by his becoming fully human. He was, and still is, the one true Son of Man who is restoring to us our own full humanity. Humanity was created as God's regents administering His creation in full and open relationship with each other.

John
NZ
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