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  #41  
Old 12th September 2012, 06:42 AM
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tit for tat

Originally Posted by Hupomone10 View Post
I am wondering why the President doesn't have time to see Netanyahu but seems to have time for David Letterman.

"WASHINGTON/JERUSALEM (Reuters) - In a highly unusual rebuff to a close ally as tensions escalated over how to deal with Iran's nuclear program, the White House said on Tuesday President Barack Obama would not meet Benjamin Netanyahu during the Israeli prime minister's U.S. visit later this month."
Here

"President Obama will appear as a guest on The Late Show with David Letterman during a trip to New York on Tuesday, Sept. 18, a source tells National Journal."

and Here
Netanyahu: "Those in the international community who refuse to put red lines before Iran don't have a moral right to place a red light before Israel," he added, addressing a news conference with Bulgaria's prime minister.

U.S. has no right to block Israel on Iran: Netanyahu - Yahoo! News

I think things are bad when the U.S. is obviously distancing itself from our (one-time) good friend, Israel.
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  #42  
Old 12th September 2012, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Hupomone10 View Post
[font=Franklin Gothic Medium][size=3]Vote your values.

If you believe two men having sex together should be allowed to marry and be called a married couple and a family, that this should be part of the foundation of a good godly society, vote democrat.
I am a Democrat and I support the idea that the States, not the Federal Government, should decide policy about things like marriage. I believe that the Federal Government should stick to their constitutionally assigned role and allow the States to dictate their own policy on the issue. I also believe that the US is not and should not be a Christian theocracy, so it is not the government's job to create a "godly" society; that is for the American people to do, not the government.

If you believe in the murder of unborn children, vote democrat.
I am a Democrat, and I do not support the murder of unborn children. Personally, I would have no problem with outlawing abortion except in cases of rape and where the life of the mother is legitimately threatened by the pregnancy. But, I also believe that it would be supremely naive of me to think that the solution to the abortion problem and the problems that surround it can be accomplished through criminalization of the act of abortion. Likewise, I think it abundantly clear that accepting that something shouldn't necessarily be illegal is not the same as supporting that thing. There are many things that I view as immoral and sinful that are and should remain legal.

If you believe people should be given all they need by the government rather than assisted and encouraged as they take responsibility for their lives, vote democrat.
That's right, Republican President Bill Clinton established welfare to work as Federal policy. And, it is typically Republicans that support government funded job training programs, scholarships, grants, etc. for people looking for skills they need to be able to work. Oh, nevermind, these are all Democratic ideals.

If you believe people should be allowed to vote without identification, even though the same people have to produce an identification to use a charge card and even though they have to produce proof of identification to even be allowed into the democratic convention that argues that we don't need a photo ID to vote, vote democrat.
As a Democrat, I believe that voting is a constitutional right. I don't believe that attending the DNC convention is a constitutional right. Setting up barriers to keep people from exercising a constitutional right is, well, unconstitutional. I suppose, if you believe that it is okay to require people to purchase an ID card from the government in order to be allowed to vote, then the GOP is the way to go.

If you believe the socialist philosophy of equal distribution of wealth regardless of the initiative taken by the individual to gain those things, and that this socialist society has helped mankind around the world, vote democrat.

If you believe Jerusalem should not be recognized as the capital of Israel even though it has been ever since the foundation of the country, vote democrat.
Last I checked the DNC platform still maintains that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel.

I
f you have the philosophy "I care for the poor, therefore others should pay more taxes to take care of them," vote democrat.
Hmm. Can you show me a single instance where a Democratic leader has said anything remotely like this? I do believe that the rich should pay more in taxes than the poor, not simply to help the poor, but to support the very infrastructure that gives them the ability to gain wealth in the first place.
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  #43  
Old 12th September 2012, 08:02 AM
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I think some churches think the God wants us to be rich and republicans likes to look towards Richville or at least pretend they are rich.
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  #44  
Old 16th September 2012, 05:32 PM
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I almost always vote Libertarian. I vote Libertarian because I like freedom. The Republicans seem to want to legislate morality. That never works. I believe there are not too few prisons but too many laws. Laws against drugs, prostitution, gay marriage, and other immoral behavior have done nothing to cure the problems of that plague the states. The are still drug users, prostitutes, gay people, etc. etc. In my opinion we should drastically shrink the size of the federal government and lead people to morality through the love Jesus had for us, not through legislation.
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  #45  
Old 16th September 2012, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dirtoval View Post
I almost always vote Libertarian. I vote Libertarian because I like freedom. The Republicans seem to want to legislate morality. That never works. I believe there are not too few prisons but too many laws. Laws against drugs, prostitution, gay marriage, and other immoral behavior have done nothing to cure the problems of that plague the states. The are still drug users, prostitutes, gay people, etc. etc. In my opinion we should drastically shrink the size of the federal government and lead people to morality through the love Jesus had for us, not through legislation.
So are you saying we ought to get rid of the laws against murder, rape and theft? So should people be free to do these things in your kind of libertarian society?

With which Baptist denomination do you fellowship regularly?

Oz
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  #46  
Old 22nd September 2012, 05:52 PM
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I was an independent until Obama ran for President. Liberals have taken over the Democratic party and the platform is pro abortion, pro gay, and anti -God, until Obama knew it was trouble. Obama is a left wing liberal and his answer for all our woes is more big government, which will lead us toward socialism.

Come visit the American politics sub forum!
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  #47  
Old 22nd September 2012, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeffwhosoever View Post
I was an independent until Obama ran for President. Liberals have taken over the Democratic party and the platform is pro abortion, pro gay, and anti -God, until Obama knew it was trouble. Obama is a left wing liberal and his answer for all our woes is more big government, which will lead us toward socialism.

Come visit the American politics sub forum!
Jeff,

Why is socialism such a bogeyman to you? I have worked all of my life and paid taxes in Australia so that when my wife and I reach age 65 and our incomes are low enough, we will receive a basic pension that will enable us to live - not a high flying life.

I and my daughter have paid taxes so that she, at age 38, with a debilitating illness can get a disability pension - which she is on - (as long as her husband's wage is not too high).

I have a debilitating heart condition (an artificial mitral valve). I have been on loads of medication since 1983. I have paid my taxes so that now I am retired I am elegible to receive a health care card so that I only pay $5.60 for each prescription (as long as my income is not too high).

And we have public hospitals, paid for by my taxes, that enable people to receive free medical treatment. I'm grateful for that as my wife has a polycythemia rubra vera that could turn to leukemia at any time. She receives free treatment in our hospitals - paid for by our taxes.

So, what is so wrong with the anathema of socialism? This is not communism. But I receive the benefits of living in a caring society with a caring government that provides these service because I have elected them and because I have paid taxes all my life.

What's the big deal about social services provided out of our taxes by government?

I find it very misleading in the slogan in your post that you confuse socialism with extreme manifestation of it in atheistic communism.

Oz
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  #48  
Old 23rd September 2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by granturissimus View Post
To me it seems that most are. Why is that? What is it about the republican philosophy that Christians vote for them? And what is it about the democratic philosophy that Christians don't like?

I know democrats are for gay marriage and abortion... is that why Christians vote republican?

I'm trying to figure out who to vote for.
Hello, and good morning. Wow, ask a simple question...lol.

I think what one poster said applies to your question in a way that overshadows "the issues." It is perhaps an assumption to think that because one votes a particular way they are affiliated closely with the party. It saddens me that there are those that get entangled with politics to the point where it becomes, in my opinion, distractive. We are to be Christians, not Republicans, not Democrats, not Libertarians, et cetera.

Having said that, as a Christian, I cannot overlook the roles of some important Bible characters that held political offices. Consider Joseph: was he not involved in a foreign system of government? Not by choice, but by the careful placement of an Omniscient God. Who meant it for good. In this role Joseph played an important part that led to provision for many people.

I think also of Mordecai and Daniel: also given a place of power in a foreign government.

In neither account do we see that either Joseph or Mordecai are frowned upon. Could we imagine how they felt to be in a place of power...in a system that had enlaved them/their people?

Yet their faith was not overturned (though in Esther it is implied). Involvement in government did not change who they were.

Now lets consider our own roles concerning modern government in this Country: can we also be involved without losing our Christian identity? As I said, it saddens me to see people get entangled to the point where "the issues" overpower their Christian identity. They can tell you what their favorite talk show host had to say about the candidate for the opposition but have nary a word for or of the Lord.

But I believe we can, as one poster said, make our voice count without entanglement, and without redirecting our focus from Christ and efforts of evangelism.

And I believe we should. THere was an incident where a woman was brutally raped in a park, within earshot of many people...and no-one said a word. Not voicing opposition to something that is wrong, terribly wrong, is itself what I call evil. People have said, "America shouldn't play world police," but I can tell you this, to stand by and let evil occur because one "doesn't want to get involved" is wrong, and I do not believe this to be pleasing to the Lord.

When I cast my vote this November, it is not because I am a Republican or Democrat, but because I am a Christian that happens to be an American, and I cannot idly sit by while a vote for one party will certainly lead to strengthening agendas and philosophies that are not just harmful to this country, but to those who's eyes are blinded to truth. God will one day give strong delusion to the lost, thatthey will believe the lie, and be under the influence and supportive of a political leader that will gladly lead them to their destruction. It is similar to seeing a man drinking himself into a drunken stupor and then sitting idly by and watching him get into a car and drive himself home.

One poster said another posted his opinions only, but this is not true: stark facts were posted that is not the opinion of the poster, but simple fact that cannot be ignored. While I would agree that we have to keep things in perspective as Christians and keep in the forefront that worldy government is worldly, and not a part of the Body of Christ, this does not mean that within this government there are no members of the Body of Christ. That there are no officials that do not have as a foundation Christ.

For a sitting President to condone practices and actions that are against simple biblical values is, in my opinion, not just watching the drunk get up and get in his car, but it is helping him to the car, putting the keys in his hands, and pointing the wheel toward the nearest cliff.

If we can, by our vote, speak up in opposition of issues that will have consequences for countless millions...we should do so. And as we do so, we can keep a Christ-centered focus and not get entangled in the feud by political enthusiasts.

As I consider the candidates, one issue that is for me above all issues is Islam. Don't confuse this with a hatred for Muslims, it is not. I live in a country where I believe it is right that a man should have the choice of who he will worship and what group he will affiliate himself with. It is up to us, the Body of Christ, to be used of God to lead them to Christ...not the government. However, Islam has as a goal world domination. Our Progressive Dispensational brothers believe that the antichrist will rise up out of Islam. This is, I believe, a very real possibility. I was an advocate for going into Iraq. Many were opposed but I believe there were many Iraqis that would have objected to this opposition. But what I found to be ironic is that we may very well have been training...Antichrist's troops in the art of warfare.

Now on the other hand, we have for a candidate...a Mormon. You know what? I view the American government as a part of the world system...not a part of the Kingdom of God. We have had Catholic Presidents, and I am opposed to many doctrines of Catholicism, so will I withhold my vote because the candidate is Catholic? No. We had a Southern Baptist president recently...was he a representative of Christ? Of you and I? Well, while on a mission trip in Austria, though I cannot read German, the headline in the paper box was plain to all: Sex Scandal! Very embarrasing for me as an American.

So are we voting in a representative of Christ? No. We are voting in a candidate we believe is better for the country, which will help us. As liberal views become ever increasingly popular with newer generations who's interest in video games and cell phones far outweigh their interest in Theology, we will see a day where there will be a Muslim candidate, and one that will not be sympathetic behind closed doors. It is ironic that among the supporters for our cuurent president are those that should Islamic ideals gain further acceptance...will be put to death by the very system they inadvertantly supported. Supported, not because they are on board with all of his ideals, but because he can help them with their own agenda.

And speaking of agenda, consider the vote at the DNC to "restore God to the platform:" only a deaf, dumb, and blind man could not see that the majority was opposed to this measure. The bottom line? This adminstration does not care what the people want.

Why is this not obvious?

Okay, sorry for the length. I will just say that keep Christ in the forefront, keep in mind this is a system of the world, and pray. Your vote is important. And while God will place those in power as he sees fit, you can be the one to drive the drunk man home, so to speak.

God bless.
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  #49  
Old 23rd September 2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by P1LGR1M View Post
Hello, and good morning. Wow, ask a simple question...lol.

I think what one poster said applies to your question in a way that overshadows "the issues." It is perhaps an assumption to think that because one votes a particular way they are affiliated closely with the party. It saddens me that there are those that get entangled with politics to the point where it becomes, in my opinion, distractive. We are to be Christians, not Republicans, not Democrats, not Libertarians, et cetera.

Having said that, as a Christian, I cannot overlook the roles of some important Bible characters that held political offices. Consider Joseph: was he not involved in a foreign system of government? Not by choice, but by the careful placement of an Omniscient God. Who meant it for good. In this role Joseph played an important part that led to provision for many people.

I think also of Mordecai and Daniel: also given a place of power in a foreign government.

In neither account do we see that either Joseph or Mordecai are frowned upon. Could we imagine how they felt to be in a place of power...in a system that had enlaved them/their people?

Yet their faith was not overturned (though in Esther it is implied). Involvement in government did not change who they were.

Now lets consider our own roles concerning modern government in this Country: can we also be involved without losing our Christian identity? As I said, it saddens me to see people get entangled to the point where "the issues" overpower their Christian identity. They can tell you what their favorite talk show host had to say about the candidate for the opposition but have nary a word for or of the Lord.

But I believe we can, as one poster said, make our voice count without entanglement, and without redirecting our focus from Christ and efforts of evangelism.

And I believe we should. THere was an incident where a woman was brutally raped in a park, within earshot of many people...and no-one said a word. Not voicing opposition to something that is wrong, terribly wrong, is itself what I call evil. People have said, "America shouldn't play world police," but I can tell you this, to stand by and let evil occur because one "doesn't want to get involved" is wrong, and I do not believe this to be pleasing to the Lord.

When I cast my vote this November, it is not because I am a Republican or Democrat, but because I am a Christian that happens to be an American, and I cannot idly sit by while a vote for one party will certainly lead to strengthening agendas and philosophies that are not just harmful to this country, but to those who's eyes are blinded to truth. God will one day give strong delusion to the lost, thatthey will believe the lie, and be under the influence and supportive of a political leader that will gladly lead them to their destruction. It is similar to seeing a man drinking himself into a drunken stupor and then sitting idly by and watching him get into a car and drive himself home.

One poster said another posted his opinions only, but this is not true: stark facts were posted that is not the opinion of the poster, but simple fact that cannot be ignored. While I would agree that we have to keep things in perspective as Christians and keep in the forefront that worldy government is worldly, and not a part of the Body of Christ, this does not mean that within this government there are no members of the Body of Christ. That there are no officials that do not have as a foundation Christ.

For a sitting President to condone practices and actions that are against simple biblical values is, in my opinion, not just watching the drunk get up and get in his car, but it is helping him to the car, putting the keys in his hands, and pointing the wheel toward the nearest cliff.

If we can, by our vote, speak up in opposition of issues that will have consequences for countless millions...we should do so. And as we do so, we can keep a Christ-centered focus and not get entangled in the feud by political enthusiasts.

As I consider the candidates, one issue that is for me above all issues is Islam. Don't confuse this with a hatred for Muslims, it is not. I live in a country where I believe it is right that a man should have the choice of who he will worship and what group he will affiliate himself with. It is up to us, the Body of Christ, to be used of God to lead them to Christ...not the government. However, Islam has as a goal world domination. Our Progressive Dispensational brothers believe that the antichrist will rise up out of Islam. This is, I believe, a very real possibility. I was an advocate for going into Iraq. Many were opposed but I believe there were many Iraqis that would have objected to this opposition. But what I found to be ironic is that we may very well have been training...Antichrist's troops in the art of warfare.

Now on the other hand, we have for a candidate...a Mormon. You know what? I view the American government as a part of the world system...not a part of the Kingdom of God. We have had Catholic Presidents, and I am opposed to many doctrines of Catholicism, so will I withhold my vote because the candidate is Catholic? No. We had a Southern Baptist president recently...was he a representative of Christ? Of you and I? Well, while on a mission trip in Austria, though I cannot read German, the headline in the paper box was plain to all: Sex Scandal! Very embarrasing for me as an American.

So are we voting in a representative of Christ? No. We are voting in a candidate we believe is better for the country, which will help us. As liberal views become ever increasingly popular with newer generations who's interest in video games and cell phones far outweigh their interest in Theology, we will see a day where there will be a Muslim candidate, and one that will not be sympathetic behind closed doors. It is ironic that among the supporters for our cuurent president are those that should Islamic ideals gain further acceptance...will be put to death by the very system they inadvertantly supported. Supported, not because they are on board with all of his ideals, but because he can help them with their own agenda.

And speaking of agenda, consider the vote at the DNC to "restore God to the platform:" only a deaf, dumb, and blind man could not see that the majority was opposed to this measure. The bottom line? This adminstration does not care what the people want.

Why is this not obvious?

Okay, sorry for the length. I will just say that keep Christ in the forefront, keep in mind this is a system of the world, and pray. Your vote is important. And while God will place those in power as he sees fit, you can be the one to drive the drunk man home, so to speak.

God bless.
Good points. I can tell you are not voting for Barack Obama. Who are you voting for?
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"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17

"Behold, I make all things new." Revelation 21:5


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Old 23rd September 2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by OzSpen View Post
Jeff,

Why is socialism such a bogeyman to you? I have worked all of my life and paid taxes in Australia so that when my wife and I reach age 65 and our incomes are low enough, we will receive a basic pension that will enable us to live - not a high flying life.

I and my daughter have paid taxes so that she, at age 38, with a debilitating illness can get a disability pension - which she is on - (as long as her husband's wage is not too high).

I have a debilitating heart condition (an artificial mitral valve). I have been on loads of medication since 1983. I have paid my taxes so that now I am retired I am elegible to receive a health care card so that I only pay $5.60 for each prescription (as long as my income is not too high).

And we have public hospitals, paid for by my taxes, that enable people to receive free medical treatment. I'm grateful for that as my wife has a polycythemia rubra vera that could turn to leukemia at any time. She receives free treatment in our hospitals - paid for by our taxes.

So, what is so wrong with the anathema of socialism? This is not communism. But I receive the benefits of living in a caring society with a caring government that provides these service because I have elected them and because I have paid taxes all my life.

What's the big deal about social services provided out of our taxes by government?

I find it very misleading in the slogan in your post that you confuse socialism with extreme manifestation of it in atheistic communism.

Oz
Because 60% of Americans were against the Affordability Care Act, Republicans were against it, and Obama forced it upon us. We held Democrats accountable in 2010, and it is time to hold Obama accountable in 2012.

Barack Obama is a dangerous man. If he is re-elected, we will be in recession or worse, our debt will go up another $5T, and world wide we'll be back to where we were with Jimmy Carter.
__________________
"For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17

"Behold, I make all things new." Revelation 21:5


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