Sin and the gospel

freeslip · #1 3rd September 2012, 10:54 AM

Hi, new here with a few questions. The Christian gospel is frequently called the "good news". Why is this?

Christianity seems often obsessed with the concepts of hell, sin, death, punishment and judgment. Is there a reason for why this faith is so negative? Is there anything actually "positive" about your religion?

I have heard Christians say "God gave us free will so we can choose to love him. True love cannot be forced." Why then does God expect us to abandon our god-given free will and become as machines who blindly follow him and his edicts?

Also, why does God command us to love him, if love cannot be demanded or forced?

Thanks.

SharonL · #2 3rd September 2012, 10:57 AM

The Good News is that you can be saved from all this negative that is facts.

God demands we love him, because without this love we cannot carry out the Will of God.

Once we are on the tract of following Jesus - the Will of God just becomes natural and a loving, giving action and not one that is demanded. God's Will cannot be carried out without Love.

Clare73 · #3 3rd September 2012, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by freeslip

Hi, new here with a few questions. The Christian gospel is frequently called the "good news". Why is this?

You have to know the bad news first to appreciate the good news.

Bad news: all mankind is born under the wrath of God for Adam's sin (Jn 3:36; Ro 5:12-21).

Good news: Jesus Christ removed God's wrath on those who believe in Jesus.

Christianity seems often obsessed with the concepts of hell, sin, death, punishment and judgment. Is there a reason for why this faith is so negative? Is there anything actually "positive" about your religion?

Thanks.

Therein lies your problem.

It is God's religion, he makes the rules.

All I do is believe him.

In the faith,
Clare

freeslip · #4 3rd September 2012, 03:44 PM

so there's nothing positive about your religion? That is depressing.

Why does God have anger towards humans anyway? Aside from the bible saying so, can you give me an example of this in real life?

Johnnz · #5 3rd September 2012, 04:20 PM

There is a sin centred version of the 'good news' that dominates sections of the Christian community. That is unfortunate and you have raised a good point.

At the centre of Christian belief is a Divine community (the Trinity in theological terms) of all that is Good and Perfect. That community has existed long before any imperfections entered in to our world. To focus on sin is to exalt the lesser. Salvation in a biblical sense is about rediscovering the glory and wholeness of the life always intended for humanity. That is a two step process, beginning now amidst our broken world, and a final renewal of all of creation at the end of time as we know it.

I have found C S Lewis the most thought provoking author on what that renewed life might look like. His book 'The Great Divorce' is a stimulating read.

John
NZ

2PhiloVoid · #6 3rd September 2012, 06:12 PM

so there's nothing positive about your religion? That is depressing.

Actually, I find the prospects of resurrection, transformation, and eternal life somewhat stimulating.

Why does God have anger towards humans anyway? Aside from the bible saying so, can you give me an example of this in real life?

He gets angry because He knows we could have, and can, respond to Him more favorably than we do. He gets angry because He holds in His hand the gift of eternal life...and people spit in His face and try to knock the gift out of His hand.

I get angry at my own son sometimes when he disobeys me, after I've clarified what I want him to do and why it is beneficial for him to do so. For instance, he may need to spend a lot of time outside for school activities. I tell him to wear plenty of sun-screen. He either forgets or refuses to do so. I then get on his case and remind him that sunscreen is for his own dermatological health.

Sketcher · #7 3rd September 2012, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by freeslip

Hi, new here with a few questions. The Christian gospel is frequently called the "good news". Why is this?

Christianity seems often obsessed with the concepts of hell, sin, death, punishment and judgment. Is there a reason for why this faith is so negative? Is there anything actually "positive" about your religion?

Yes - the good news is that those who believe are saved from all that darkness and get to go to Heaven, where there is no suffering or pain - even though none of us deserve it. That's not just good news, that's great news.

Originally Posted by freeslip

I have heard Christians say "God gave us free will so we can choose to love him. True love cannot be forced." Why then does God expect us to abandon our god-given free will and become as machines who blindly follow him and his edicts?

He doesn't tell or expect us to abandon the free will that he gave us. Rather, he would have us use our free will to obey and love him, and as we follow him in this journey of life, our obedience and love teaches us more and more about him in all kinds of ways.

Originally Posted by freeslip

Also, why does God command us to love him, if love cannot be demanded or forced?

If love cannot be forced, then of course he's going to tell us to love him. Since we have free will, we are not puppets - therefore he has to command us. If he were to force us to love him, the point would be moot.

Johnnz · #8 3rd September 2012, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by freeslip

Also, why does God command us to love him, if love cannot be demanded or forced? Thanks.

We must put aside our notions of 'law'. The foundational meaning of commandment in the OT is in relation to covenant, a relationship whereby God unites with His people. The term is relational before it is legal.

In ancient times people believed life was governed by the Fates, or various gods. One had to do whatever was necessary to maintain their favour, but even then Fate could intervene. Thus, life was not secure, and gods were largely worrisome if not hostile beings.

But in the Mosaic covenant we get a God who is relational and who brings some certainty into a person's relationship with Him. Thus, His commandments are not primarily laws, but signposts on the road, telling us how best to live our lives. Jesus taught us that obedience issues from love, not vice versa.

John
NZ

freeslip · #9 3rd September 2012, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Johnnz

We must put aside our notions of 'law'. The foundational meaning of commandment in the OT is in relation to covenant, a relationship whereby God unites with His people. The term is relational before it is legal.

In ancient times people believed life was governed by the Fates, or various gods. One had to do whatever was necessary to maintain their favour, but even then Fate could intervene. Thus, life was not secure, and gods were largely worrisome if not hostile beings.

But in the Mosaic covenant we get a God who is relational and who brings some certainty into a person's relationship with Him. Thus, His commandments are not primarily laws, but signposts on the road, telling us how best to live our lives. Jesus taught us that obedience issues from love, not vice versa.

John
NZ

Yeah I guess what is hard for me to accept is how as humans, we're condemned for not being "loving enough" but God gets off the hook for that. I think it's kind of a double standard to make up rules and not follow them yourself.

Where am I getting this idea of God not being loving from you might be thinking. Well, God created flawed men with the intent of damning most of them, depending on whose version of your religion you ask, so I'd have to say that qualifies as pretty close to pure evil, if you ask me.

I'm not an atheist, but I do sympathize when they want nothing to do with a God who demands their love and servitude under threat of eternal torture. That's like holding a gun to my wife's head and demanding she love me or else I'll blow her brains out. Not love.

It's even worse that your God wants humans to burn in hell for all eternity. How is this being "good" exactly?

ViaCrucis · #10 3rd September 2012, 08:30 PM

Coming from the Lutheran POV here:

We make a distinction between Law and Gospel.

In simplest terms: The Law says "do this" and it is never done; the Gospel says, "trust this" and it is done already.

What is the Law? "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your mind, and with all your strength and love your neighbor as yourself." "Love your enemies." "Do not return evil with evil, but return evil with good." "Bless and do not curse." "Pray for those who persecute you." "When someone strikes you on the one cheek, turn and offer the other." "Have no other gods." "Do not murder." "Do not covet." "Do not steal." and so on and so on.

When we are confronted with the Law it does something to us, we are confronted with just how sinful we are--the things we ought to do we fail to do and the things we ought not do we do.

If that was the extent of it, yeah, that's pretty negative.

The Gospel, however, is the good word, the good news: God loves us, God desires to rescue us from this brokenness. Though we are selfish, God is for us, He is on our side.

God's disposition toward mankind is love, kindness, compassion, grace. That is the Gospel, God's good word to the world.

The good news isn't that we are rotten, wicked little creatures; the good news is that we are created in the image of God, beloved of God, and that He proactively comes to us in all of our imperfection, frailty, brokenness to work in us, to save us from ourselves and our selfish and destructive life.

The Law and Gospel work together, the former as a mirror that we might see ourselves where we truly are without trying to self-justify ourselves and our selfishness--which drives us to our knees; the latter is the compassionate Friend we have in Christ God who kneels beside us, lifts us up to our feet, and says, "I am with you."

-CryptoLutheran