| Ethics & Morality A forum for the discussion and debate of ethics & morality open to all members. |
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1st September 2012, 06:39 AM
|  | Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!
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Reps: 98,344,133,562,165,328 (power: 98,344,133,562,172) | | Originally Posted by Notedstrangeperson  Sorry to butt in but ...
Breivik was not a christian. From his manifesto: It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a "Christian fundamentalist theocracy" (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage (what we do want).
So no, you don’t need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian-atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter).
The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation but rather a Christian "culturalist" military order.
Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I’m not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe.
If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. This makes us Christian.
Fair enough, I take that back.
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1st September 2012, 06:51 AM
| | Loudmouth
  
| | Join Date: 3rd July 2008
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Reps: 127,433,160,464,321,440 (power: 127,433,160,464,329) | | Originally Posted by Paradoxum Fair enough, I take that back.
Thanks.
__________________ I judge you unfortunate because you have never been unfortunate; you have passed through life without an antagonist; no one will know what you can do, not even yourself. Lucius Annaeus Seneca If we seriously think about it, it probably makes more sense to assume that this is a naturally evil world that has somehow been mysteriously 'contaminated' by goodness, rather than the other way around. M. Scott Peck Thanks to everyone for the good reputation points. |
1st September 2012, 06:57 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Quite right he wasn't a Christian. By definition a Christian believes in and follows after Christ. Following the "mores" of Christianity makes you a follower only of the so-called "right thing". And for those who posted that they are secularists and Christians...as my Jersey friends would say...fuggetabtit! I am actually pretty shocked by some of the responses to this thread. The name Christian Forum threw me I guess. But the responses are also very telling about the state of Christendom, I suppose, sadly it seems true.
BTW, no Islamists are "brethern" to a Christian, only those who follow Christ have that title. Islamists put Christ in the same category as Moses and Muhammad, anathema for those who depend on Christ's work on the Cross and God's great sacrifice for all mankind.
For all those out there who would be politically correct and "politely" ignore the threat the Islamists pose to the world, stay blind or be informed, your choice. |
1st September 2012, 07:17 AM
| | Loudmouth
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Reps: 127,433,160,464,321,440 (power: 127,433,160,464,329) | | Originally Posted by tessiewebb I am actually pretty shocked by some of the responses to this thread. The name Christian Forum threw me I guess. But the responses are also very telling about the state of Christendom, I suppose, sadly it seems true.
Well a lot of the people down here in the Society section are atheists. We also have a Christian-only Theology section. But I'm not sure whether you'll find much support up there either. Forgive me if I've made a mistake, but you seem to be suggesting it's acceptable to use violence to convert others.
Christian violence is (mostly) a thing of the past, but it's still a strong presence in the Muslim world. They can have it. Our religion is better than theirs.
[EDIT] I'd also point out that Christianity actually invented the concept of the separation between church and state. Indeed this is where the term "secular" comes from. Islam, like most other religions, does not have this same concept.
__________________ I judge you unfortunate because you have never been unfortunate; you have passed through life without an antagonist; no one will know what you can do, not even yourself. Lucius Annaeus Seneca If we seriously think about it, it probably makes more sense to assume that this is a naturally evil world that has somehow been mysteriously 'contaminated' by goodness, rather than the other way around. M. Scott Peck Thanks to everyone for the good reputation points. |
1st September 2012, 11:14 AM
|  | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 254,924,293,968,544,768 (power: 254,924,293,968,563) | | Originally Posted by tessiewebb Quite right he wasn't a Christian. By definition a Christian believes in and follows after Christ. Following the "mores" of Christianity makes you a follower only of the so-called "right thing". And for those who posted that they are secularists and Christians...as my Jersey friends would say...fuggetabtit! I am actually pretty shocked by some of the responses to this thread. The name Christian Forum threw me I guess. But the responses are also very telling about the state of Christendom, I suppose, sadly it seems true.
.
Secularism stands for not using force to try to make people believe the "right" things.
If you intend to tell me what to think about God and religion by force I shall happily respond in kind.
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La religione deve lasciare che dio parli per se stesso |
1st September 2012, 11:35 AM
|  | The truth will make you fret
 
| | Join Date: 9th March 2002 Location: Germany, Bavaria, Middle Franconia
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Reps: 75,641,842,523,653,376 (power: 75,641,842,523,675) | | Originally Posted by tessiewebb Quite right he wasn't a Christian. By definition a Christian believes in and follows after Christ. Following the "mores" of Christianity makes you a follower only of the so-called "right thing". And for those who posted that they are secularists and Christians...as my Jersey friends would say...fuggetabtit! I am actually pretty shocked by some of the responses to this thread. The name Christian Forum threw me I guess. But the responses are also very telling about the state of Christendom, I suppose, sadly it seems true.
BTW, no Islamists are "brethern" to a Christian, only those who follow Christ have that title. Islamists put Christ in the same category as Moses and Muhammad, anathema for those who depend on Christ's work on the Cross and God's great sacrifice for all mankind.
For all those out there who would be politically correct and "politely" ignore the threat the Islamists pose to the world, stay blind or be informed, your choice.
Well, I agree with you on "the threat the Islamists pose to the world". They are a threat (in my view) partially for what they promote (I disagree with that rather strongly), but mostly for how they promote it: by threats, force and violence.
You seem to see that as an expression of their "interest" in promoting their views, and you seem to envy this zeal.
But you must be aware that this kind of zeal amongst Christians has resulted in no small amount of bloodshed, and that for this reason a predominant christian society has invented the neutral ground of secularism.
You may call all these people, here and now or in the past, "not true Christians", but then I would like to know what you propose a "true Christian" should do to show his zeal to promote his religious views.
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Hier sitz´ich, forme Menschen
Nach meinem Bilde,
Ein Geschlecht, das mir gleich sei,
Zu leiden, zu weinen,
Zu genießen und zu freuen sich
Und dein nicht zu achten,
Wie ich!
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1st September 2012, 01:24 PM
| | You will be who you will be. We are our choices.
| | Join Date: 15th April 2012 Location: in a handbasket
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Reps: 365,644,364,772,363,904 (power: 365,644,364,772,369) | | Originally Posted by CrashTestPoster Islamists use force to accomplish what they see as "god's will". Christians don't (or shouldn't). Let the filthy remain filthy.
so there's no call for Christians to immerse themselves in the filth of politics to try to use government force to accomplish "god's will."
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"Don’t speak to me about your religion; first show it to me in how you treat other people.
Don’t tell me how much you love your God; show me in how much you love all God’s children.
Don’t preach to me your passion for your faith; teach me through your compassion for your neighbors.
In the end, I’m not as interested in what you have to tell or sell as I am in how you choose to live and give."
-- Cory Booker, Mayor of Newark, NJ.
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1st September 2012, 03:07 PM
|  | Rising Force
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Reps: 429,487,963,432,833,216 (power: 429,487,963,432,846) | | Originally Posted by tessiewebb Listening to an interview with Anjem Choudary of ShariaUK this morning, he said many things that Christians and Jews can object to legitimately but this one thing he is right about :. Atheism, secularism, and many mores of "western" society are against the will of God. He was very bold in saying that "sharia law" would be implemented "sooner or later" in England, Belgium and other European countries as well as the United States. To him this will happen because of the will of "Allah", whether by force or stealth.
It is painfully obvious that the Islamists are more interested in mankind turning to the religious, moral and ethical standards of their god than Christians or Jews are to the true God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. And the Islamists are far more willing to do whatever it takes to create a religious world than we are.
If you want to see the full interview, go to Stakelbeck on Terror Show: One-on-One with UK Islamist Anjem Choudary. Scroll down the page for the videoed interview.
Sooooo....
In keeping in line with the subject of your thread, which part did the islamists "get right"?
Forced religion is a bad thing and completely contrary to biblical teachings about free will.
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dir="ltr"> With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things and evil people to do good things, that takes religion. |
1st September 2012, 03:41 PM
|  | Regular Member
34 
| | Join Date: 6th January 2006 Location: Lake Forest Park, WA
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Reps: 32,811,159,231,273,072 (power: 32,811,159,231,282) | | I always wondered what the religious right has against radical Islamists. They seem to have so much in common.
Because both believe in God?
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"While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage."
2 Peter 2:19
"Equality in Jesus Christ should not be confused with equality in anything else. This should not be a difficult concept for anyone who isn't willing to swap his heart surgeon for a fry cook with Down's Syndrome on the basis of their mutual Christianity."
Vox Day |
1st September 2012, 03:46 PM
| | Veteran
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Reps: 48,631,479,443,142,656 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by SoldierOfTheKing Because both believe in God?
Because both place very little value on individual liberty when it runs counter to their ideals. | | |
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