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  #1  
Old 16th August 2012, 03:00 PM
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God and the United States are merged very strongly.

This needs a thread all by its self. Some are having trouble in understanding elementary school civics. In elementary civics we teach the "separation o church and state" whereas we do not teach "separation of state and God." As difficult as this concept is for some liberals who try to twist American freedom into some type of humanism and moral relativity, Americans have chosen an absolute God as the bases of government. Why can some of you not see our freedoms folks not grasp the truth that Americans have never given up their faith in God? Americans have used the instructions of God to build on the Rock our freedoms and liberties into our government.

America is unique among democratic countries because we have kept God as a provider of our self-evident rights. If we allow humanist and liberals to take God out of government. as we rightly have done the church. we no longer have an authority for America;s greatness. When God is gone then we are gone as a unique country and our freedoms and liberties are gone.
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  #2  
Old 16th August 2012, 05:28 PM
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As an outsider unsure of all the details of how the relationship between the State and aspects of religion is worked out. What is there within your legislation regarding this and how is it understood? Is it the 1st Amendment to your Constitution interpreted by the Supreme Court, or is that incorrect?


Also, the 1st amendment says that Congress shall make no law etc... Does this mean theoretically that individual states could establish a religion or not, just that a national religion may not be established?
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Old 16th August 2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Dave View Post
As an outsider unsure of all the details of how the relationship between the State and aspects of religion is worked out. What is there within your legislation regarding this and how is it understood? Is it the 1st Amendment to your Constitution interpreted by the Supreme Court, or is that incorrect?


Also, the 1st. amendment says that Congress shall make no law etc... Does this mean theoretically that individual states could establish a religion or not, just that a national religion may not be established?
What the ist. amendment means is that you are free to say what God is for yourself and God does not have to be the God that the government says God is. One is free to say there is no God but as a nation we believe that God and not government gave us our rights and freedoms. We can not separate from God because we would then lose all our rights and freedoms by default. The church is out of Gov. but God is in.
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Old 16th August 2012, 09:55 PM
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Great post my friend, agreed 100%.
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Old 17th August 2012, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Creech View Post
Great post my friend, agreed 100%.
Thank you brother Creech, if you liked what was pointed out about the first Amendment of the American Constitution, you are going to love the following truth that has so long been overlooked. When the Constitution was written and adopted there were many religions and ways of worshiping God among the colonies. There were of course Anglicans, Quakers, Puritans, very few Greek Orthodox and Roman Catholics, Lutherans, a few Deist, Calvinist, etc. Yet, when the First Amendment was adopted, Americans decided that God had been explained and worship defined well enough that nothing new about God and religion needed to be said. Every person knew well from where their rights came, God was a self-evident fact and did not need any prolonged debate to prove that God was and He was always going to be our Premise for a Constitutional Democracy It was intended that God was to be the entire Premise for government.Separation of God and state,how dumb that is!

Therefore, what do you think the very first amendment to the Constitution would announce to all the various opinions of God, the one premise for every thing in government and man's pursuit of happiness be? It is so simple, so logical, so common sense like, such a great idea that it had to be the one true God. God was and is whatever he was and needed no further explanation.

Thus,Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The fact is that we had plenty of a definition of God and religion and the state had no further need to explain religion or God.Without the God that the Americans had already explained, there was nothing in the Constitution that had any meaning whatsoever. It was the God of the Constitution that gave all Americans their human rights. It was well understood by everybody that we were one nation under God and citizens could not find a single right that they had that did not come from God.

There, my brothers, I have given you the correct meaning of making the establishment of religion (in government). We had the one true God and needed no new god in government. Now , Are you not happy that the Gadfly was here to explain this simple truth so as to remove the traps that the philosophy of phenomenology, liberalism and humanism has planted into the uninformed minds of those just beginning to learn about Christ?
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  #6  
Old 17th August 2012, 06:29 PM
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Before the liberals throw a counter attack to discredit what was just said, the purpose of the First Amendment was to prevent another religion or foreign government from replacing the one God we had already selected to be the God of our nation. There is absolutely nothing illogical or out of historical context with the above interpretation. This is not just my opinion, this is hard rock factual.
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On the Wesleyan Parish, the Gadfly is a charter member of the Christian Assertive Effort (CAE). At the CAE, learn Christian strategies of intervention with at-risk children and adolescents.

"It is impossible to rightly govern a nation without God and the Bible." - George Washington

A national at-risk idea:
The idea there is no national God is getting out of control in public education/colleges/universities!

Last edited by GadFly; 17th August 2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 18th August 2012, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by GadFly View Post
Before the liberals throw a counter attack to discredit what was just said, the purpose of the First Amendment was to prevent another religion or foreign government from replacing the one God we had already selected to be the God of our nation. There is absolutely nothing illogical or out of historical context with the above interpretation. This is not just my opinion, this is hard rock factual.
Have you read "The Covenant" by Tim Ballard. He goes into the basis for America's connect to God and what they meant for America. It also cautions us to be wary of the consequences for abandoning that God.

But, I have to disagree with you Gadfly. The 1st Amendment has nothing to do with foreign governments or religions. It is a statement that Americans do have the right to worship as they choose and to worship the God that they choose. God allows us the free will to make this decision, good or bad. He has also told us and shown us time and time again that making the right choice (Him) results in prosperity and happiness. He has also shown us that making the bad choice ("foreign" gods and idols) result in exile, slavery, misery, and death.

The modern American has chosen the foreign gods and idols. The God of Israel and Father of Jesus is not glitzy enough for most Americans. Even the so-called christian churchgoers are just there to get their ticket punched so they can hurry back to their idols. Give them the choice between "exciting" and "good" and "exciting wins almost every time.

God is letting us march ourselves into slavery. We won't be wearing chains or making bricks without straw, but we'll be slaves all the same. The 1st amendment allows that because the entire Constitution was written for a just and moral people. Today, the progressive vision of "justice" first demands that we ignore "morality". We let people rewrite our history so that we only learn of things we should be ashamed of. They tell us that we can't be proud of our accomplishments. They tell us that our greatest strength is in our collective surrender to everything that we instinctlvely know is wrong.

Just as God gave Adam and Eve a choice and they chose wrong, He gave us a choice with the 1st Amendment. We could have emulated Jesus in the garden, but we chose to follow Eve.

The good news is that we can, individually, choose to follow Jesus but that road may become very rocky as our Earthly masters begin to try and stop us.
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Old 18th August 2012, 11:28 PM
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I really don't care what the Constitution does or does not say on this. God did not want Israel to have a king, but wanted to be King himself. Even though the role of the king was to serve as God's agent, God knew that human creatures are fallible. When we wed the religion and state too closely to one another, the problem is not that a state religion develops, but that religion is asked to serve the needs and purpose of the state and God is asked to bless what is often actually blasphemy. God didn't want that for Israel and I don't believe he wants it for the US either.
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Old 19th August 2012, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by GraceSeeker View Post
I really don't care what the Constitution does or does not say on this. God did not want Israel to have a king, but wanted to be King himself. Even though the role of the king was to serve as God's agent, God knew that human creatures are fallible. When we wed the religion and state too closely to one another, the problem is not that a state religion develops, but that religion is asked to serve the needs and purpose of the state and God is asked to bless what is often actually blasphemy. God didn't want that for Israel and I don't believe he wants it for the US either.
Because people do not care what the Constitution says is why we need it. It is because men left alone. selfish and narcissistic people will change the law to suit their individual lusts. Americans where of the opinion that no one religion was good enough to tell every body else to live. They were worried that if any one church had power with the state, a church like the Church of England or the Roman church would re-emerge. This was the first and greatest concern the colonies had when it came to religion. They simply addressed their biggest religious concern first They like you knew religion and state did not mix well but they knew that God was the source of all freedoms and liberties; therefore, they chose to keep the God we had in the government of the USA; but government(CONGRESS) was not to allow any new religion to creep into government. Religion, a nee on

As has been pointed out,but not discussed very well, liberalism and humanism violates the First Amendment. The danger is that ministers of God do not seemingly understand that these are two new religions that attempts to take God completely out of government. What Christians have been led to think is that any references to God are unconstitutional.

With all this said, there is still a new religion and an anti-God philosophy creeping into the Constitution, attempting to change all our laws to suit their own lusts. That new religion is called liberalism. or more specifically, it is called humanism. Liberalism and humanism are two philosophies that are opposed to God, Christianity, and each and every type of the definition of a God that influences the judgment of men and is involved in the affairs of men.
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  #10  
Old 21st August 2012, 11:53 AM
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Maybe I need to revise my remarks a bit.

I certainly do care what the Constitution says on many levels. I especially value it for the freedoms it enumerates and the rights and privileges of botht he governed and the government it articulates. What I don't care about is to think that things are a particular way just because it says they are on a piece of paper, even a piece of paper as important as the Constitution.

The Constitution may declare a freedom, but I don't have it if the reality is that others have conspired to take that freedom away despite what the Constitution says. Certainly there are many such instances that one could cite in the history of our country. Some of them have been criminal, some of them have been culturally imposed, and some of them have even been by act of one or more pieces of the government itself. Each has been settled in their own unique ways by law enforcement, prophetic preaching, judicial action, and who knows how other many ways if one was to start citing specific instances.

With respect to God's place within the life of a nation, the best the Constitution can do is give the views of a small group of humans at a particular point in time. But God's rightful place is NOT determined by words on a piece of paper. God's place, God's authority, God's power, God's privilege is not determined by people at all. Not the people who wish to support nor the people who wish to ignore, even deny, God. God is sovereign. The Constitution might be the law of the land, but it is God who is still God. So, with respect to God's place in our society, our country, our government, I don't really care what the Constitution says (though, of course, I care about human opinion and law to some extent) for the truth about these things are not to be found in a human document, but in God himself.
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