| Spirit-Filled / Charismatic The forum for all charismatic churches and movements. |  | 
14th August 2012, 05:30 AM
|  | A voice crying in the wilderness

| | Join Date: 26th July 2004 Location: Florida
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Reps: 82,354,105,424,216,400 (power: 82,354,105,424,226) | | | The first principles In Heb. 6, we are given by the writer of that book six principles, that, once studied can establish a believer in the Word of God. These aren't to be pushed aside with a "Oh, I already know that. That's simple stuff" push off. These truths need to be deeply rooted into a Christian's life in order to go on to maturity. Sadly, today, we see imbalance ruling the Charismatic churches, not sound doctrine.
The study of these six principles normally takes one year to complete in twice daily gatherings with a competent teacher.
I'll write more of this when I get more time. Right now, I have to head for work. | 
14th August 2012, 06:14 AM
|  | Legend

| | Join Date: 12th July 2004 Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
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Reps: 773,353,004,994,476,928 (power: 773,353,004,994,510) | | What if those "six principles" were not meant to be comprehensive/absolute but simply listed by way of example (as are spiritual gifts)?
__________________ An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. ~Jef Mallett It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. ~Pierre Beaumarchais | 
14th August 2012, 07:04 AM
|  | A voice crying in the wilderness

| | Join Date: 26th July 2004 Location: Florida
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Reps: 82,354,105,424,216,400 (power: 82,354,105,424,226) | | | Read the chapter previous, chapter 5, Jim, the ten or so verses prior to the beginning of chapter 6, then get back with me. | 
14th August 2012, 09:30 AM
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| | Join Date: 12th July 2004 Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
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Reps: 773,353,004,994,476,928 (power: 773,353,004,994,510) | | Originally Posted by hopeinGod Read the chapter previous, chapter 5, Jim, the ten or so verses prior to the beginning of chapter 6, then get back with me. Okay, here’s Hebrews chapters 5 and 6. What’s your point? Chapter 5
1 For every high priest chosen from among men is appointed to act on behalf of men in relation to God, to offer gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He can deal gently with the ignorant and wayward, since he himself is beset with weakness. 3 Because of this he is obligated to offer sacrifice for his own sins just as he does for those of the people. 4 And no one takes this honor for himself, but only when called by God, just as Aaron was.
5 So also Christ did not exalt himself to be made a high priest, but was appointed by him who said to him,
“You are my Son,
today I have begotten you”;
6 as he says also in another place,
"You are a priest forever,
after the order of Melchizedek.”
7 In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. 9 And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, 10 being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.
11 About this we have much to say, and it is hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. 12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, 13 for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. 14 But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil. Chapter 6
1 Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. 10 For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. 11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
13 For when God made a promise to Abraham, since he had no one greater by whom to swear, he swore by himself, 14 saying, “Surely I will bless you and multiply you.” 15 And thus Abraham, having patiently waited, obtained the promise. 16 For people swear by something greater than themselves, and in all their disputes an oath is final for confirmation. 17 So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, 18 so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. 19 We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, 20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
__________________ An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. ~Jef Mallett It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. ~Pierre Beaumarchais
Last edited by JimB; 14th August 2012 at 09:36 AM.
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14th August 2012, 09:41 AM
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Reps: 2,287,151,683,944,507,136 (power: 2,287,151,683,944,524) | | Originally Posted by hopeinGod In Heb. 6, we are given by the writer of that book six principles, that, once studied can establish a believer in the Word of God. These aren't to be pushed aside with a "Oh, I already know that. That's simple stuff" push off. These truths need to be deeply rooted into a Christian's life in order to go on to maturity. Sadly, today, we see imbalance ruling the Charismatic churches, not sound doctrine.
The study of these six principles normally takes one year to complete in twice daily gatherings with a competent teacher.
I'll write more of this when I get more time. Right now, I have to head for work.
Those six principles are the milk of the word.
Heb 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV
Until a Christian has wisdom and understanding of the milk ( the six) they cannot handle "strong meat".
They choke on it, gag, and/or spit it out! | 
14th August 2012, 09:56 AM
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Reps: 156,817,226,599,785,824 (power: 156,817,226,599,788) | | Originally Posted by Optimax Those six principles are the milk of the word.
Heb 5:12-14
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
KJV
Until a Christian has wisdom and understanding of the milk ( the six) they cannot handle "strong meat".
They choke on it, gag, and/or spit it out! 
Here I was expecting a bullet list of 6 items. How do you break down "milk" into 6 principles?
__________________ What's the Word say? | 
14th August 2012, 10:00 AM
|  | Senior Veteran 71 
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Reps: 2,287,151,683,944,507,136 (power: 2,287,151,683,944,524) | | Originally Posted by dysert Here I was expecting a bullet list of 6 items. How do you break down "milk" into 6 principles?
The six items referred to are "listed" in the first few verses of Hebrews 6.
Heb 6:1-3
6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the (1) foundation of repentance from dead works, and (2) of faith toward God,
2 (3) Of the doctrine of baptisms, and (4)of laying on of hands, and (5) of resurrection of the dead, and (6) of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit. KJV | 
14th August 2012, 10:02 AM
|  | Senior Veteran 71 
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Reps: 2,287,151,683,944,507,136 (power: 2,287,151,683,944,524) | | | God "permitted" and Paul went into much detail about Jesus, our High Priest.
Which is strong meat! | 
14th August 2012, 11:13 AM
|  | A voice crying in the wilderness

| | Join Date: 26th July 2004 Location: Florida
Posts: 1,355
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Reps: 82,354,105,424,216,400 (power: 82,354,105,424,226) | | | Jim quoted: For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God
That is exactly what I was saying. Those principles are taught. Plus they are the foundation upon which we build toward maturity. But, if the foundations be destroyed, what shall the righteous do, right?
That is what is taking place when Charismatics steer onto roads that aren't found within the oracles of God.
And, the principles listed in the sixth chapter are not all "milk." It's so easy for someone to breeze through those principles without any real study, searching what is contained throughout all the Scriptures regarding them. Just by reading them, one isn't grounded in what they contain.
Repentance from dead works, for instance, was written that way because of whom the letter was sent, to the Hebrews. What did the writer use the phrase "repentance from dead works" rather than "repentance from sin"? What are the outworkings of repentance? How can it be determined if a person has repented? What is the difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow? And so much more.
Faith toward God is another large topic, which, although the Faith Groups seem to major on, contains so much more than believing to receive and obtaining entitlements. For instance, what is the difference between the "unity of the spirit" and the "unity of the faith"? What's the difference between "the faith" and faith?
I could go on and on. A point I could make of this is that there are many, many groups who are going on into the "deeper things" of God without having a proper foundation. They are building upon foundations that cannot hold any structure, and whatever is built thereon will come tumbling down; that is, if it is not consistent with foundational principles.
Remember the two guys who were telling people that the resurrection is past already? Hymaneaus and Philetus, it is written, caused the faith of some to be overthrown. Why? Because what they were saying cannot be supported by Scripture. Nevertheless, we're told, the foundation of God stands sure.
I'll write more. Gotta go.
Last edited by hopeinGod; 14th August 2012 at 11:19 AM.
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15th August 2012, 05:36 AM
|  | A voice crying in the wilderness

| | Join Date: 26th July 2004 Location: Florida
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Reps: 82,354,105,424,216,400 (power: 82,354,105,424,226) | | | Regarding the principle of eternal judgment there is so much to learn. Within it contains all that is spoken in Scripture concerning judgment. For instance, what is the difference between a discerning and condeming judgment? Show in Scripture where these are defined. What is meant in one place to judge not, then in another we're told that we're to judge all things? What are the judgments awaiting the believer and unbeliever in the life to come? What is meant by righteous judgment? And much, much more.
There are only a few groups that I know of who take these foundational principles to heart, not just as a few words to breeze through, but to study and meditate upon. Prior to studying them, however, it would be best the student start by searching out a score of other topics regarding meditation, the real testimony of Scripture, deliverance from books and CDs, deliverance from man, deliverance from spiritual ambition, and on and on.
Majoring on merely the verses that have built for celebrities formulas to feed the masses, what tickles their ears, that they have the potential for riches and blessing, has led the hearers away from balance and sound doctrine. |  | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |