| Spirit-Filled / Charismatic The forum for all charismatic churches and movements. |
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13th August 2012, 09:41 AM
|  | Newbie
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| | Join Date: 3rd December 2011
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Reps: 190,195,744,444,751,296 (power: 190,195,744,444,754) | | Originally Posted by Optimax  If a person was born gay, that would mean that God made a mistake.
God does not make mistakes but people do and are led into all manner of deceptions. 
What???---So, has God made mistakes with the people who are born with an alcoholic gene??--How about those that inherit childhood deformaties? No. God does not make mistakes--but we have inherited not only sinful natures, but warped genes as well. There are many born with 2 sets of genitals--yes, both sexual organs!! There are even those that are born without any--just an orifice to pee out if they're lucky.--We can accept the poor person born with such horrible defects that they do not even look human, but when it comes to sex, we can't seem to understand that there are genetic factors at work there also.
That in no way means that those born with sexual differences are not held to the same code of sexual conduct as the rest of us. Because you're born an alcoholic, does not mean it's ok to be an active one. We all have crosses to bear, and inherited genetic factors are amongst those. It would in no way surprise me to find out that pedophiles have a genetic problem--that does not mean pedophiles should be free to violate children.
God has not made people this way--Adam and Eve were perfect---but sin came in and after that genetic malfunctions started in--we have to deal with the hand that we've been given and sometimes it is a burden that almost flattens us down to the floor. We have surgeries and chemicals, drugs to help, but we are not in heaven yet--this is not God's fault and it is not the fault of the afflicted, it is the result of Satan at work trying to destroy us.
These people need our love, compassion, and help--and society also has to be protected from them if needed, but with understanding.You don't beat a child that cries so it will stop crying!!
I had a cat that was abandoned, we took it in. We all thought it was male, just by how he looked and acted and the vet was shocked to find that it was female--he also discovered the poor thing had 2 anuses!! She was spayed and the vet wished he could have been there to see what they did.
If it can happen to cats--it can happen to people!!
We should not be so shocked about the fact that people can be born with a female brain, but male plumbing!! It just needs to be fixed. Yes, God made us male and female--but our genetic code is no longer perfect. These people have a soul and need Jesus salvation and dr's to cope with their overwhelming burden just as much as those born with no legs or arms or born with 2 heads, 4 legs, or whatever--for crying outloud--they have even discovered a shy gene!!--Yes, SHY--but with extra care and work, that can be overcome---People with differences carry a burden we cannot comprehend. It is heart-breaking to see.  |
13th August 2012, 09:58 AM
|  | Soldier Of The Cross
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 | | Join Date: 17th May 2011 Location: Fayetteville, NC
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Reps: 137,997,439,945,421,824 (power: 137,997,439,945,425) | | | Yes, all people need the love of God expressed to them, and the POWER of God manifested to them! Amen!
__________________
I am writing to all the Churches and I enjoin all, that I am dying willingly for God's sake, if only you do not prevent it. I beg you, do not do me an untimely kindness. Allow me to be eaten by the beasts, which are my way of reaching to God. — Ignatius, Letter to the Romans
2 Corinthians 5:20, "We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God." |
13th August 2012, 10:03 AM
| | Newbie
 
| | Join Date: 1st January 2009
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Reps: 34,562,691,493,093,464 (power: 34,562,691,493,098) | | Originally Posted by JimB Hmmm. So, how do you account for the twins (TWINS!) I mentioned above, one who grew up heterosexual and the other homosexual? Neither was the victim of sexual abuse. In fact, they both grew up in the home of a single mother with three older girls and two boys. The twin who grew up gay showed feminine characteristics from a toddler age, preferring dolls and tea sets to toy weapons and baseball gloves. They both grew up in a fairly balanced home (except for an absent father,) and though they were twins took an immediate different direction in their sexual orientation.
I don't know that I ever have all the answers to explain every case . . . just an axiom I find relevant all too often :-)
Who's to say the two individuals didn't take the absence of their father in different ways? Twins always have a dominant and passive tendency. Even from the womb, they are different personalities and react to motivations and stimuli in different ways. I think the absent father is a key. And discounting abuse may be difficult considering small children often don't remember it. Could it be that one twin learned interest in feminine things to get someone's attention (Mom's) and just stuck to a pattern? |
13th August 2012, 01:15 PM
| | Senior Member
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| | Join Date: 4th July 2004
Posts: 1,994
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Reps: 132,084,549,337,977,296 (power: 132,084,549,337,987) | | | As far as the "sin is sin" theory, where does the Bible ever say that? It's like, "God helps whose who help themselves." Not only is it not there, it contradicts the rest of scripture. As has already been stated any sin is enough to disqualify us from eternity with God, but not all sin is the same. Jesus says that there is sin that renders the offender beyond redemption, that's infinitely worse than any other sin. There are sins that are indications that one is not a Christian, and there are things that people just stumble over. Not all the same.
If there were any natural component to homosexuality, why do they have to actively recruit? Why do we all, (including them), know that it is just plain wrong? It is only after mainstreaming porn into first grade and kindergarden for decades that anyone even questions that it is what we all know that it is. |
13th August 2012, 01:19 PM
|  | Staying in the middle of the road.
54 
| | Join Date: 15th November 2006 Location: Earth
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Reps: 297,590,039,674,313,408 (power: 297,590,039,674,332) | | Originally Posted by onlybygrace84 Now hear me out before you brand me as a heretic. Some of you have seen enough posts by me to know my stance on homosexuality and it's destructiveness to the soul. Neither is this thread about advocating or supporting gay rights, nothing of the sort, but....
Is it not possible for someone to be born gay? Before you go yelling at me through the screen and planning cyber warfare against me on CF (lol) I feel like I received that almost supernaturally last night while preparing to argue that no one can be born gay. I came to my conclusion as just posted for this reason.
We are all born with a sin nature are we not? Psalm 51:5, "Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me." Sin is defined as breaking of God's law, of which we all readily admit that homosexuality is, but then when it comes to "more tame" sins of the flesh like lying, thievery, lust, etc we admit that is possible, but doesn't God view all sin as the same? So being born with the sin nature, thanks to Adam thank you Adam, is it not possible that part of that sin nature would be the tendency towards homosexual sins and lusts? After all, unbelieving homosexuals go to Hell as much as unbelieving liars, etc. We all need the Savior regardless of what sins of the flesh we've committed and we all need deliverance from those deeds.
Now let's keep this civil please, no need to get out of control on this. Again I restate this is not a thread in support of homosexuality anymore than it is in support of other sins of the flesh, Jesus is Lord of all!
IF it is as you stated above part of a sin nature - then it can be repented of.
People can go an sin no more.....
__________________ Pragmatism is the exact opposite of faith. Pragmatism says, "If it works, I'll accept and believe it." Faith says, "What I accept and believe is based entirely upon God's written Word, the Bible." Saying the body we receive after physical death is a renewed or ultimately healed body is incorrect, to the point of absurdity; equal to having a 1990 banged up Chevy, then receiving a 2011 Cadillac and telling people it's your Chevy after it was repaired.
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13th August 2012, 01:24 PM
| | Just Sit
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| | Join Date: 4th November 2004
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Reps: 46,878,055,018,961,704 (power: 46,878,055,018,971) | | Originally Posted by Optimax If a person was born gay, that would mean that God made a mistake.
God does not make mistakes but people do and are led into all manner of deceptions. 
With that logic why are people born with any imperfections? Last I checked there are many people born with horrid birth defects or missing limbs, etc.
__________________
Genuine people who are reborn in Christ's Spirit are in the simplicity of Christ and have no quarrel with anyone about religion.
-Jakob Boehme |
13th August 2012, 02:04 PM
|  | God keeps His promises
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| | Join Date: 13th June 2002 Location: Southeast Kansas
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Reps: 166,151,746,410,897,184 (power: 166,151,746,410,926) | | Originally Posted by onlybygrace84 Now hear me out before you brand me as a heretic. Some of you have seen enough posts by me to know my stance on homosexuality and it's destructiveness to the soul. Neither is this thread about advocating or supporting gay rights, nothing of the sort, but....
Is it not possible for someone to be born gay? Before you go yelling at me through the screen and planning cyber warfare against me on CF (lol) I feel like I received that almost supernaturally last night while preparing to argue that no one can be born gay. I came to my conclusion as just posted for this reason.
We are all born with a sin nature are we not? Psalm 51:5, "Indeed, I was guilty when I was born; I was sinful when my mother conceived me." Sin is defined as breaking of God's law, of which we all readily admit that homosexuality is, but then when it comes to "more tame" sins of the flesh like lying, thievery, lust, etc we admit that is possible, but doesn't God view all sin as the same? So being born with the sin nature, thanks to Adam thank you Adam, is it not possible that part of that sin nature would be the tendency towards homosexual sins and lusts? After all, unbelieving homosexuals go to Hell as much as unbelieving liars, etc. We all need the Savior regardless of what sins of the flesh we've committed and we all need deliverance from those deeds.
Now let's keep this civil please, no need to get out of control on this. Again I restate this is not a thread in support of homosexuality anymore than it is in support of other sins of the flesh, Jesus is Lord of all! The feminine qualities in a man or the masculine qualities in a woman are not what God hates....it's same sex sex that is an abomination.
That said, yes, I think one can be born with the qualities of the opposite sex and/or be drawn to the same sex. However, it's still an abomination for one to have sex with a member of the same sex.
__________________ Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
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13th August 2012, 02:20 PM
|  | Philosopher
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Originally Posted by SpiritPsalmist The feminine qualities in a man or the masculine qualities in a woman are not what God hates....it's same sex sex that is an abomination.
That said, yes, I think one can be born with the qualities of the opposite sex and/or be drawn to the same sex. However, it's still an abomination for one to have sex with a member of the same sex. Agreed.
__________________ Justification and Sanctification is by Grace through Faith with Charity. This is taught by the Sacred Magisterium, the Sacred Tradition, and the Sacred Scriptures of the Church which our Lord Christ Jesus himself established through his Apostles and Disciples, and spoken by the Prophets before them.
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εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ Πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ Ἁγίου Πνεύματος in nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritūs Sancti |
13th August 2012, 02:31 PM
| | Regular Member
| | Join Date: 1st September 2007 Location: Kansas city,Missouri.
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Reps: 451,068,191,738,574 (power: 451,068,191,744) | | | I think whether one is born that way or not is a irrelevant question. The bible says the act is a sin.
I was born with asperger syndrome. Does that mean God messed up? No, it means I was born in a fallen sinful world with a fallen sinful nature. Is it an excuse for me to let certain unbecoming traits of mine control my life? No. It's my job to take up my cross and follow him.
We all have different things to bear in this life. |
13th August 2012, 03:42 PM
|  | Legend
| | Join Date: 12th July 2004 Location: Nacogdoches, Texas
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Reps: 773,353,004,994,476,928 (power: 773,353,004,994,510) | | Originally Posted by MoeSzyslak I think whether one is born that way or not is a irrelevant question. The bible says the act is a sin.
I was born with asperger syndrome. Does that mean God messed up? No, it means I was born in a fallen sinful world with a fallen sinful nature. Is it an excuse for me to let certain unbecoming traits of mine control my life? No. It's my job to take up my cross and follow him.
We all have different things to bear in this life.
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__________________ An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. ~Jef Mallett It is not necessary to understand things in order to argue about them. ~Pierre Beaumarchais | | |
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