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10th August 2012, 02:41 AM
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Reps: 1,574,738,335,962,253,824 (power: 1,574,738,335,962,329) | | | After Liberalism, the Deluge? With the great social experiment of theEnlightenment crumbling all around us, we may well wonder what guiding principles will inform the culture of the future. In other words, what comes after liberalism? The subject is worth serious thought, and not long ago First Things sponsored a symposium entitled “After Liberalism”. After Liberalism, the Deluge?
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10th August 2012, 09:49 AM
|  | God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love 61 
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Reps: 626,630,887,837,468,032 (power: 626,630,887,837,482) | | The author has a strange definition of Liberalism. Definition of LIBERALISM
1: the quality or state of being liberal
2 a often capitalized : a movement in modern Protestantism emphasizing intellectual liberty and the spiritual and ethical content of Christianity
b : a theory in economics emphasizing individual freedom from restraint and usually based on free competition, the self-regulating market, and the gold standard
c : a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties; specifically : such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (as those involving race, gender, or class)
I challenge anyone to see the above as being something other than what they desire for themselves.
Jim | 
10th August 2012, 10:11 AM
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Reps: 48,141,297,673,812,656 (power: 48,141,297,673,814) | | An interesting article, thankyou for posting it! Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS The author has a strange definition of Liberalism.
No he doesn't. He is using the clear historic definition of the ideology of Liberalism as a force for rationalism and individualism (and against faith, tradition and institutions). If the dictionary was the best source of definitions, we would not need academia.
__________________ The idiocy of liberalism: "stop telling people what to do!" To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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10th August 2012, 12:00 PM
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Reps: 2,082,200,567,380,925,952 (power: 2,082,200,567,380,989) | | It depends on the dictionary too. lib·er·al
[lib-er-uhl, lib-ruhl] Show IPA adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.
2. ( often initial capital letter ) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.
3. of, pertaining to, based on, or advocating liberalism.
4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.
5. favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression: a liberal policy toward dissident artists and writers.
AS a Catholic - reform is opposing ancient teachings.
AND another portion of what it is:
3 obsolete : lacking moral restraint : licentious
4 : not literal or strict : loose <a liberal translation>
5 : broad-minded; especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or traditional forms
This is at odds with our faith.
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Matthew Chapter 7 7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." Urgent Pray for your departed loved ones ~ even if you do not believe in purgatory - what harm can come from praying for them? To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. But I say, walk by the Spirit and you shall not fulfil the To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. of the flesh. For the flesh To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. against the To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other: that you may not do the things that you would. | 
10th August 2012, 12:17 PM
|  | God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love 61 
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Reps: 626,630,887,837,468,032 (power: 626,630,887,837,482) | | Originally Posted by Leap An interesting article, thankyou for posting it!
No he doesn't. He is using the clear historic definition of the ideology of Liberalism as a force for rationalism and individualism (and against faith, tradition and institutions). If the dictionary was the best source of definitions, we would not need academia.  The use of the term “liberalism” here does not refer to, say, the liberalism of the Democratic Party vs. the conservatism of the Republican Party. It refers to the tradition of philosophical, social and political liberalism which emerged during the Enlightenment and has largely shaped the Western world order, including the modern State, since that time. This liberalism is characterized by a confidence in reason, expertise, socio-political manipulation, and consequent progress to vastly improve human life. This liberalism also neglects tradition and either ignores, denies or transforms religion so as to minimize typical religious insights of humility and dependence on God.
In looking back when the enlightenment period came about, if not for liberalism that brought it about, Puritanism would be the ruling ideology in America today.
The Church would have the authority to imprison heretics and disenters.
Even Pope Benedict XVI gave credit to the enlightenment for moving man forward.
The Church evolved spiritually, otherwise we'd still be living in the dark ages.
As Pope Benedict XVI also wrote, change requires a progressive mind-set.
For a conservative is content with the status quo, and resist change, where the progressive seeking to improve things, advocates change.
Jim | 
10th August 2012, 12:26 PM
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Reps: 48,141,297,673,812,656 (power: 48,141,297,673,814) | | Originally Posted by JimR-OCDS In looking back when the enlightenment period came about, if not for liberalism that brought it about, Puritanism would be the ruling ideology in America today.
The Church would have the authority to imprison heretics and disenters.
Even Pope Benedict XVI gave credit to the enlightenment for moving man forward.
The Church evolved spiritually, otherwise we'd still be living in the dark ages.
As Pope Benedict XVI also wrote, change requires a progressive mind-set.
A Pope who is progressive is a Pope unlike the history of the Catholic Church. For a conservative is content with the status quo, and resist change, where the progressive seeking to improve things, advocates change.
A conservative is not just about the status quo (a conservative would not be accepting of a liberal status quo, for example).
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10th August 2012, 01:21 PM
|  | Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu 52 
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It was called the Dark Ages, and it lasted about five hundred years. | 
13th August 2012, 03:42 AM
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Reps: 1,026,590,660,785,224,192 (power: 1,026,590,660,785,242) | | The article discusses 'Classical Liberalism' and its collapse. Modern-Liberalism or 'Progressivism' is essentially soft or moderate Socialism or Democratic Socialism.
Other comments:
Pope Benedict XVI is a progressive and liberal; he self-identified as such throughout the tumult of the 60s; his ideology and views have not essentially changed, although, to some outward degree, they have been slightly modified. The culture of the West having 'progressed' leftwards does not make him any less Left somehow; he still remains so.
I would not call the 'Enlightenment', good, enlightening, etc. It was the beginning of the cleaving of man's mind from faith. His detached reason became consumed by his egoism and swallowed up into the narcissism of secularist superiority of self and modernity.
This rationalism was rejected by many; instead it was itself supposed to be replaced by a base ideology, from one where reason ruled, to one where mere whim or feeling ruled the day. Hence, what is viewed as True nowadays is what a man 'feels' to be true, divine, legitimate. This is Modernism.
In our present-day culture, in Europe and America and Canada and the West: Rationalism and Modernism co-exist and mix side-by-side; conflicting, yet permeating the culture . . . add a few dashes of relativism and we've Modernity . . . . a la the Twenty-First century.
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13th August 2012, 11:12 AM
|  | God Cannot Be Grasped, Except Through Love 61 
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Reps: 626,630,887,837,468,032 (power: 626,630,887,837,482) | | Virgil the Roman; Pope Benedict XVI is a progressive and liberal; he self-identified as such throughout the tumult of the 60s; his ideology and views have not essentially changed, although, to some outward degree, they have been slightly modified. The culture of the West having 'progressed' leftwards does not make him any less Left somehow; he still remains so.
Agreed. Many believe that Pope Benedict XVI is a conservative, but this is from their seeing him as head of the Congregation of Faith, which Pope John Paul II, a conservative, appointed him to. Fact is, Cardinal Wytjola and Cardinal Ratzinger but heads during Vatican II, because their ideologies were opposite. Cardinal Ratzinger was surprised when the newly elected John Paul II asked him to head the Congregation of Faith, but he was also impressed for the reason. Pope John Paul II wanted some one who was opposite of him in ideology, to keep check on his own thinking. Cardinal Ratzinger did his job well, and came across to the world as a staunch conservative, being labeled the Rottweiler. I would not call the 'Enlightenment', good, enlightening, etc. It was the beginning of the cleaving of man's mind from faith. His detached reason became consumed by his egoism and swallowed up into the narcissism of secularist superiority of self and modernity.
Pope Benedict XVI called the Enlightenment good because it moved man forward and the freedom we have to day was the result. However, he also speaks about the evil of man seeing his own "reasoning" as superior and rejection of the faith a consequence of the up-evils we see today.
Pope Benedict XVI says that faith and reason must go hand in hand. One without the other brings either religious fanaticism, which rejects man as being good, or human reason which makes man into a god. In our present-day culture, in Europe and America and Canada and the West: Rationalism and Modernism co-exist and mix side-by-side; conflicting, yet permeating the culture . . . add a few dashes of relativism and we've Modernity . . . . a la the Twenty-First century.
Agreed, sorta.
Jim | 
13th August 2012, 12:11 PM
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Reps: 2,082,200,567,380,925,952 (power: 2,082,200,567,380,989) | | I considered myself liberal at one time.
Youth has a way of making us ideologists.
But with God - things change.
If the Pope was progressive in any way - he would be feeding progressives - but he is not. Which is why so many dislike the big bad Vatican.
I dont really see myself strictly conservative either.
I see myself - spiritual with strong lean to orthodoxy in all matters of ancient teaching and Tradition with the understanding each generation faces a revisited heresy - or mountain of issues - that the Church must re-teach why and how it is wrong.
The Church moves 3 mph - on a highway marked 75 mph.
If the Pope was progressive - priests would married in the RC, nuns would be getting their ordinations - and gays would taking their vows at the altar.
And again - any man stepping foot into the Chair of Peter - is led fully by the Holy Spirit if - if what Virgil claims is true ....
Here is proof - that idea has been stamped out. The Progressive Catholic Voice: An Open Letter to Prof. Josef Ratzinger, Pope Benedict XVI
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Matthew Chapter 7 7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." Urgent Pray for your departed loved ones ~ even if you do not believe in purgatory - what harm can come from praying for them? To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. But I say, walk by the Spirit and you shall not fulfil the To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. of the flesh. For the flesh To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. against the To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. , and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are contrary the one to the other: that you may not do the things that you would. |  | | Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes | Linear Mode | | | |